Thanks Odo.

GB - I'm not saying that Denethor is nice in either the book or the films. I think the main difference though is that in the book he doesn't really go off the deep end till Faramir apparently dies, whereas in the film he is crazy after Boromir dies and refuses to even take basic steps to defend Gondor.

Going back to what Odo said earlier I do agree that Maggot probably should have had a bigger role but I think that the clip they showed of him with one of the dogs, really fitted in with the story they told, although it didn't make it that obvious that it was Farmer Maggot himself. Everybodies got to predict which dog it is btw, Grip, Fang or Wolf! I really like the way the film included the dog cowering inside because it was scared of the Black Rider. I also noticed on a lower point that Buckland looked much the same as Hobbiton which was disapointing. Any thoughts on Farmer Maggot everyone?

I did say I was probably biased (I suppose you might have missed my edit). But you are right about the book timing vs the film timing. Though I should have been more clear about my view of him in the films . After Boromir dies in the film, we see Denethor as losing it but not completely lost, but enough to lose his grip on how to stay in charge of things and becoming even more of a...erm...certain part of the anatomy. Then he really goes insane after Faramir dies.

Anyway, I defer to you (somewhat regarding the timing of events) on how he is portrayed in the books. But he's still a jerk either way .

GB

You are right about Denethor I can't belive he favors one of his sons more than the other!

Denethor, I think, feels he needs a strong arm (Boromir) as opposed to an intelligent brain (Faramir). He does not see Faramir's strength. (Btw I think Faramir is less intelligent in the film - and it annoys me a bit - though I still like him...)

I'm off home now. Goodbye.

I will do a last check of the other threads though before I disappear.

Odo

Goodbye Odo hope to see you on the forum again soon!

Oh contrarian me . I thought Faramir was fine in the films, PJ just drew out his struggle with the Ring a bit. He still came off wonderfully noble and intelligent (to me ).

GB

I think he was noble but I felt really sorry for Gollum because he was really mean to him, althought Faramir probably had good reason to be suspicious of Gollum/Smeagol.

I'd forgotten about the scene with the Black Rider, though I thought that one was well done (much better than that one where they killed a hobbit). I did not, however, like the scene where Farmer Maggot chases Merry and Pippin out of his fields, primarily because that was the way M&P entered the Quest, as opposed to doing it deliberately.