The Hobbit Movie Forum

[B'arelyn Dwarf]

Having Pippin and Merry get stuck under the roots in Fangorn Forest didn't

I also thought that this didn't really work,it was also really badly timed aswell. Also I thought, the Ent moot could have been alot longer although it is emphasized that the Ents take a long time to make decisions. The extended DVD version does follow the book better that the normal one especially in the Two Towers when they show the clip of Theodred being found. They also add a bit with Merry drinking some of the Uruk's Draught which also corresponds well with the book, although the Riders of Rohan didn't persue them for as long as in the book.

Tom Bombadil and Goldberry would have been good in a cameo part, but I think the Barrow wights might have confused the audiences of the LotR because they have similar characteristics to the Black riders.


Oh and BTW I love the ending how it is, I'm glad GB's a softy too!

[Odo Banks]

B'arelyn Dwarf,

A cameo for Tom would just not be enough, I feel. On further reflection, you could be right about the Barrow wights - moviewise. Can't agree on The Scouring of the Shire though.

(Would you mind if I call you BD in future? I'm not a quick typer?)

Regards
Odo

[B'arelyn Dwarf]

Maybe your right about Tom and Goldberry, they probably would need alot of explaining. On the subject of Barrow wights, I also think people who are not as familiar with the literature and the text, might have mistaken the Barrow wights for having calaboration with either Saruon or Saruman.

Although I didn't mention it in my earliar post I also think that the way Jackson used the part that Glorfindel should have played in to introduce Arwen was great aswell. Wish they'de included the bit just before that with the stone trolls because theres a clip in which Bilbo mentions it at the Long Expected Party to the children sat listening to him telling the story. Not sure if its extended or non extended though. Glorfindel is sort of an unnecessary character really.

Btw please call me BD, tried to copy GB before but I didn't catch on! Sorry bout that GB!

[Odo Banks]

Like the cut of your jib BD. I like people with open minds. I hope my mind is open too.

Um... I'm not sure I understand your reference to the Stone Trolls though. Could you try and explain. (I'm on night shift - maybe I'm missing the obvious).

Regards,
Odo

[B'arelyn Dwarf]

Will do, sorry I can never explain things the way I see them my self lol!

What I meant was I wished that the film had included the part in which Aragorn hits the Stone Trolls with a stick (the ones that Gandalf had tricked in The Hobbit). I also meant to say although it came out wrong lol, was that in a clip, in the film, Bilbo can be seen telling some Hobbit children the story about the Trolls and I meant to explain that it might have been quite easy including the part in the LotR I mentioned earliar because it had already been mentioned once in the film.

Oh and Btw I think it was you, someone said they weren't satisfied with how the Black Riders were portrayed in the film. If it was you could you expand on that, what is it that you don't like about them? I quite like them, although you only see them once in Twilight form in all three films.

[Eldorion]

I could go on and on about all the details, but I'll just give a few general ideas that I wish PJ had followed.

1. Not changing characters. I really don't like giving them new personalities, even for the sake of the plot.
2. Leaving the general plot alone. Not overemphasizing (Helm's Deep), adding (Aragorn falls of a cliff), or cutting (Scouring of the Shire), among others.

These are really the big ones. In my opinion, since PJ was making movies called The Lord of the Rings that were ostensibly the same story albeit in a different media than in the book, he should have stuck to the story, plot, and characters of the book.

[Odo Banks]

BD,

I understand your reference now. Yes. Aragorn belting the troll with a stick would have been nice (and easy to include). Aragorn might also have mentioned the birds nest in one of their ears (it's in the book, I think).

I did bitch about the Black Riders. I just thought it would have been better if they weren't seen leaving Mordor for a start. And a sudden distant evil cry on the wind in the Shire might have begun the suspense. Then another cry. Then the episode with the Black Rider on the road might happen (which is the first sight of it). Then maybe another distant cry - and then a sight of two Black Riders, maybe in different directions - and the hobbits then having to flee across country. And then more distant cries, with the hobbits (and the audience, hopefully) getting more frightened. All this over a greater span of movie time. Still no one has a clue who the Riders are! At last, the dash to the ferry (if Farmer Maggot really must be left out!) This would set up what happens in Bree. In the book, Aragorn tells them a little about the Black Riders, I think; and then the Black Riders attack what they think is the hobbits sleeping!

I hope this explains better what I mean. It's closer to the book, I reckon.

Odo

[Eldorion]

I didn't like Denethor in the books, so I thought the film actually portrayed him as I read him.

I don't think you're supposed to like the guy. Or was that not how you meant it? Seriously though, I think the films did a bad job showing Denethor. To borrow from an earlier discussion of the matter:

Denethor’s character was drastically simplified into a one-dimensional lunatic. Tolkien stated in Unfinished Tales, “The Palantíri” that:

“Denethor was a man of great strength of will, and maintained the integrity of his personality until the final blow of the (apparently) mortal wound of his only surviving son. He was proud, but this was by no means merely personal: he loved Gondor and its people, and deemed himself appointed by destiny to lead them in this desperate time.”

The truth of this is evident in The Return of the King, in which Denethor is no fool. He did summon the armies and call for aid from Rohan, and sent Faramir only to reinforce Osgiliath, not retake it. True, book-Denethor was irrational at the end, but film-Denethor was irrational from the beginning: blindly foolish, refusing to summon the armies of Gondor or light the beacons; and sending his son on a suicide mission to retake Osgiliath.

[Odo Banks]

Eldorion, you've done it again!

I knew I had good reason for not liking how Denethor was portrayed in the movie!

Odo

[Gandalfs Beard]

That's definitely how I meant it Eldorion . Despite his "strength of will" in the books, I always thought he sucked for playing favourites with his sons.

Now, in the films we only really see Denethor after he's lost his marbles (because he lost his favourite son). But we do get a glimpse of him in flashback being a jerk to Faramir (is that only in the EEs, it's hard to recall the theatrical version now).

I don't think he really came across as "one note" in either the books or the films (he seemed complicated enough), just a jerk. There are plenty of people in Real Life just like him (I used to work for one of them ).

Edit: by the way, that last bit probably biases my opinion

GB