Wow that's SOME post Gandy

I must admit I understood about half of it (but what I did understand was excellent). I get what you say though about both of them being outside the "mainstream of Orthodoxy", with all Tolkien's Valar and Elves and that. Maybe he was of the viewpoint that his own faith (in Jesus) was foreshadowed in previous belief systems. I am quite good at history and I sure remember a point in the Renaissance (have I spelt it right? ) when a bunch of modern Catholics called themselves "Humanists" and started to believe that Christ was foreshadowed in Paganism and Buddhism and stuff. But I don't hink it fully developed until Vatican II when the Church officially pronounced that other belief systems had "grains of truth". Ironically though I don't think Tolkien was very pro-Vatica II Ok I've gone to deep and I've got myself all fuddled up now....hmm...I think....no wait...damn't its gone

Felagund, you should see would old GB whips up on Narnia Web if you thinks that impressive . By the way, I love your Avatar, what is it suppose to be, exactly?

Thank you Light it is actually a drawing of Finrod Felagund

I really like Gandy - I've only known him for a short while but the man is growing on me I've even given him a new name (or my own slang term)

Aw Shucks, thanks for the kudos Fela and LITD . Mythology, Comparative Religions and Philosophy are my main field of research. What I love about Tolkien and Lewis is they had many of the same interests as me .

And that is a sweet avvy Fela. Did you draw/paint it yourself?

GB

Cheers Gandy - alas no I cannot draw a stickman to spare my life I just saw it on the net about 3 years back and loved it

I believe the real issue for Tolkien was that he DETESTED allegory as a literary device. Narnia was pure allegorical Christianity.

Perhaps there was some allegory in Narnia - but it was not always close allegory, alllegory NOT very applicable to Christianity. Narnia is a very Pagan work. Mind you, I find Christianity very Pagan anyhow, so maybe his allegory was applicable after all. Myth? Religion? Esoterica? It's all good fun providing one doesn't believe too much in it. Suspension of disbelief (faith) in books (and only in books and other forms of escapism) is fun, don't you think? Shame Tolkien got so touchy about Lewis. They once were friends.

Narnia was really quite over-the-top with its Christian messages and allegory. The first time I read The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe I was 10 so a lot of it went over my head, but a re-reading a few years later left me soured. I could barely get through Prince Caspian with all the heavy-handed preachiness, not to mention that I found the message (love/follow God more than your family) to be sickening.

Religion, a trick of the priesthood to keep a hold of the gullable. (kal Zackath in David Eddings Belgariad)

Well, its easy to be allegorical when using Biblical stories (they are the most popular). I feel that the reason Tolkien despises allegories so much is becuase that they make "hidden" messages too blatantly obvious. It's insulting to the reader's intelligence and unoriginal. That's why, for example, Tolkien created 3 characters who were much like Jesus Christ. Frodo because he was the least likely to destroy all evil, Aragorn because he was hunted from birth, an outcast, and looked down upon, and Gandalf because he resurrected into a more divine being. I think Tolkien would have denied this because he didn't want people making comparisons, he wanted them to enjoy the characters and stories for what they were, not what they were like.