The Hobbit Movie Forum » Hobbit Movie

1. Kendalf
   Member

   Hi all,

   I hope I havent broken any internet / forum protocols by creating a new thread with my very first post, but I thought this was an appropriate topic at an appropriate time!

   I've been posting for a long time about the forthcoming movies on Jackson's Facebook page (until they removed the Discussion facility!)and at The One Ring but an invite from one of your esteemed regular posters here, Julia Mellor, convinced me to sign up here, too.

   Well? What did you think? Personally, I was pleased with the rather stately pace and the inclusion of the dwarves singing. It seemed to have more of an authentic Tolkien vibe to it than a standard, quick-cut, frenetic approach may have done. And the fact that it was 2.33 mins long was unexpected, too; very generous so far out from release date.

   Posted 4 months ago #
2. julia mellor
   Member

   Hi there Ken, its great to see you here, we have been having problems here with logging in with fb, and its taken us a while to sort something out. Eldo kindly helped us find a way of posting again, and this is at the worst time possible what with the trailer coming out and all.
   and what a trailer, wow, that music has kind of stuck in my head, it was unexpected as I was afraid all the songs would be shelved, it was a very pleasant surprise. I liked the image with Gandalf and Galadriel too, some people have speculated it was a romantic gesture but I dont think it was, it was a gesture of old friendship I think. overall I was very very happy, and Bilbo looks perfect casting.

   Posted 4 months ago #
3. Joel Becker
   Member

   I had been becoming somewhat negative in regards to the movies due to some of the discourse on this forum (mainly concerning PJ ruining something along the way). While the trailer didn't assuage all of my fears, I definitely do feel better about it, and I'm pretty excited again. I also liked the singing dwarves; I was afraid PJ wouldn't have them sing.

   Posted 4 months ago #
4. Kendalf
   Member

   Yep, the dwarves' song is what elevated it for me. Like you two, I was immensely happy to hear it. What was even more exciting (to my admittedly untrained ear) was that the melody was then carried on in the orchestral score once the "epic montage bit" started, which must mean that Howard Shore is at work already. No?

   As for the Galadriel and Gandalf scene, yep, it's an "old friends" thing, perhaps as a prelude, or postscript, to a meeting of the White Council that she's summoned.

   What did you think of Thorin? We've had precious little to go on so far (bar that ill-judged promotional photo that sparked the whole Klingon hysteria). Ok, he's young, ok, he's black-haired but he seemed, to me, to have the necessary authority, gravitas and presence...

   Posted 4 months ago #
5. julia mellor
   Member

   At first I was quite critical of the way Thorin looked, but from seeing him in action I think he looks very kingly and I like him. Most of the dwarves have grown on me, even dare I say it Kili, but yes Thorin was good.

   Posted 4 months ago #
6. Eldorion
   Member

   I've listened to the song even more times than I've watched the trailer (which is a fair number): it's pretty fantastic in my opinion. The whole thing has gotten me much more excited about the films than I was previously. I'm actually feeing a bit optimistic for once!

   Posted 4 months ago #
7. Joel Becker
   Member

   I don't know. I still don't like his neatly trimmed beard... and his black hair. He has a little bit of grey, it seems, but in the book he was nearly 200 years old, which is definitely in the latter stages of a dwarf's life. Also, it referenced his long beard, not to mention the fact that it seems outrageous for a dwarf to not have a beard, so one would think that such an important dwarf would have a magnificent beard... and a blue hood! (Okay, I don't care so much about the hood.) I'm still not thrilled with Thorin's appearance, but like Julia said, he did have a presence (without much to go on). I'm sure as time goes by, my mental image of Thorin will morph into the one that PJ hasn't presented us with.

   Posted 4 months ago #
8. Marvin Chang
   Member

   Hi all. I've liked everything I've seen on the trailer so far... I'm wondering, though, is it just me or does the song sound a lot like the song Aragorn sings during his coronation at the end of ROTK? I could be crazy, but that's what it reminded me of.
   Also, I think the idea of anything romantic between Gandalf and Galadriel is pure idiocy. Without a doubt it was merely a friendly gesture.
   Martin Freeman does look really good. Ironically, his look reminds me of the Brothers Hildebrandt artwork, with the hobbits having large, pointed noses. I say, "ironically" because I've never really liked their style, but I do like Freeman as Bilbo.
   I've often wondered where PJ was going to set Bilbo's retelling of his tale. By the sounds of it, this seems to be the instance where Bilbo gives Frodo the true and complete account. You'll all remember in The Shadow of the Past (I think this is where it is, but I'm not sure) when Gandalf asks Frodo which story he'd heard from Bilbo and Frodo says that he's heard the true one, not the one Bilbo told the dwarves. It seems the backdrop of the film is this telling which I think is a great idea. It's a nod to fans of the book and it's a good, pre-LOTR spot for the retelling.

   Posted 4 months ago #
9. Kendalf
   Member

   Yes, I'm impressed with Armitage's Thorin...from what we've seen so far! I think "kingly" is a nice way to put it, Julia. That shot on his horse when he turns around? Spot on. And his voice, leading the chorus? Spot on again.

   Posted 4 months ago #
10. julia mellor
    Member

    As to the song being like Aragorns coronation song, I think it sounds rather similar because it is sung in a low baritone, with almost a chant like feel, its quite hypnotic and remains in the mind after like an echo, its probably the genius of Howard Shore at work.

    Posted 4 months ago #
11. Kendalf
    Member

    Mmm, Martin, now you've mentioned it, it does sound a little like Aragorn's coronation tune!

    Anyway, yes, I'd always suspected they'd set the Bilbo-telling-Frodo scene at Bag End prior to the Long Expected Party. It's the only one that made any real sense cinematically. If they'd set it after Frodo's adventures in LotR (ie before heading off to the Grey Havens), Bilbo would have had to been his ancient, withered self mumbling incoherently and that wouldn't be particularly nostalgic or enjoyable for the audience. If they'd set it in Rivendell (when the ageing Bilbo reveals his latest writings to an awe-struck Frodo), that wouldn't have had the familiarity and homeliness of Bag End...

    Posted 4 months ago #
12. julia mellor
    Member

    You are right about Bagend ken, also Bilbo was preparing mentally and physically to leave Bagend to go on his adventures perhaps for ever, so he was tying up loose ends putting his affairs in order, and with that the desire to unburden his conscience about the "truth" about his adventure, he wanted to tell Frodo everything before he went away.

    Posted 4 months ago #
13. Kendalf
    Member

    Nice, Julia! That's a cracking motivation for having Bilbo finally confess the whole truth to his nephew.

    Posted 4 months ago #
14. pettytyrant
    Member

    My problem with all of this is that we seem to getting an 'adult' version of TH told by Bilbo with the conceit the book version was his version for young hobbits or something, full of talking animals etc. Except unless you have read the book what you will be getting is just the 'adult' version.
    And there is a question of at which point when you change a thing does it no longer resemble the original at all? I've watched the trailer again and besides Gandalfs line to Bilbo near the start there is no Tolkien based dialogue and no mention of Tolkien in the main body of the trailer (as opposed to PJ getting two screens to himself during it).
    Tolkien tried this himself- rewriting TH to be inline with the more adult take of LotR's- and he abandoned the project as a bad idea- I just hope we are not about to see why it was such a bad idea. And if Tolkien could not get it to work what chance PJ and the Coven, the worlds worst Tolkien impersonators?

    Posted 4 months ago #
15. julia mellor
    Member

    Well from what I have seen of the trailer we will be getting the light humour of the hobbit book, from the look of those images of the dishes song in Bagend. it looks like a suitable gentle hobbity start to me. It has also the more adult look of Lotr with the images of Galadriel and Rivendell, but it looks pretty seamless to me.

    Posted 4 months ago #
16. Marvin Chang
    Member

    There are major differences between the writing process and the filming one. Tolkien's rewriting of The Hobbit was abondoned because it lost the feel of the original book. If you've read the little Tolkien wrote of this rehashing, you'll see that much of this "hobbit feel" was lost due to the absence of the editorialising and tone provided by the narrator; with his lessons and comments that make it like a parent telling their child a story. Additionally, Tolkien never tried to remove the lightness or humour of Bilbo's actual adventures. In the chapter containing the trolls in Tolkien's rewrite, he left their original dialogue almost entirely intact. This only adds credence to the fact that it was the different style of narration that changed the feel of the Hobbit. Unless there's to be a continuous narration by Bilbo, which I doubt, the film is never going to have the quality the narrator brought to the story anyway. I can't imagine PJ will remove the bulk of the humour and fun based on his treatment of LOTR. It seems PJ was so bent on adding more humour and lightness that he turned the characters of Gimli, Merry, and Pippin into comic relief. If he's attempted to add humour in the past, why would he remove it when it's already present in the story?

    Posted 4 months ago #
17. Eldorion
    Member

    "It seems PJ was so bent on adding more humour and lightness that he turned the characters of Gimli, Merry, and Pippin into comic relief. If he's attempted to add humour in the past, why would he remove it when it's already present in the story?" - Marvin

    Hi Marvin, nice to meet you. I think the answer to your question should be quite obvious from LOTR. PJ's sense of humor is quite different from Tolkien's. Very little of Tolkien's own humor was included in the films, and (as you point out) most of the comic relief was of Jackson's own insertion. Tolkien didn't make fat jokes, fart jokes, dwarf jokes, etc. Trying to use _that_ as a way of saying Jackson will be faithful to Tolkien's original humor in The Hobbit is a triumph of hope over experience. That said, it does seem we will at least be getting some of the songs, which is encouraging. :)

    However, the trailer shows that Jackson is out to remove a lot of the lightness from the book. You say that Tolkien never changed the trolls' dialogue. Perhaps that's so, I haven't read his re-writes myself. But Jackson took the troll scene and turned it into a fight that Gandalf wins through the use of flashy magic. The changes here are obvious but the introduction of a fight as opposed to (humorous!) banter and wit winning the day were to be expected.

    Posted 4 months ago #
18. pettytyrant
    Member

    Because there is plenty humour in Lotr's which PJ completely ignored Marvin, or took out and replaced with his own so called style of 'humour'- resulting in the complete destruction of the characters you mention and their reduction to mere comic relief.
    The question is more do I trust PJ and the Coven to adapt Tolkien humour as it is in TH or do I expect them to reduce 13 dwarves to comic roles and fill the thing with farting, belching dwarf tossing jokes? Guess which I supect will happen, go on!

    Eldo you posted my thoughts even as I was composing them- I agree entirely.

    Posted 4 months ago #
19. julia mellor
    Member

    I dont believe that characters were completely destroyed in LOTR by PJs use of humour, its true that some of Gimlis scenes were comic relief, but not all and he retained his true character in my opinion. some things were a bit heavy handed such as the dwarf tossing thing, but Gimli was for me a serious character and I dont feel that he was too badly done by. Who is to say that Gimli did not have a sarcastic turn of phrase when faced with danger, I imagine he did, thats why I like him. I was more disturbed by Legolas and his surfing to be honest.
    As for The Hobbit I do worry that there will be a lot of Bombur falling over, but then in the book he was a bit silly and hapless.

    Posted 4 months ago #
20. pettytyrant
    Member

    All I have to say to, "Gimli was for me a serious character and I dont feel that he was too badly done by," Julia is Paths of the Dead (extended cut especially) Just !*@!&* awful. Or his comic prat fall pursuing the orcs, or hopping up and down to see over the wall at Helms Deep, or the dwarf tossing jokes, or the other prat fall off a horse bit, or...oh I am making myself crabbit just thinking about it all and there's so much more!

    Where was passionate Gimli who waxed lyrical over the Glitteinrg Caves, or insightful, thoughtful Gimli who notes that men always start with good intentions but never live up to them? The Gimli who could fall in love with Galadriel, the Gimli who challenges Eomer for dissing her name? Sorry but I don't see book Gimli in the character Pj presents at all.

    Posted 4 months ago #
21. Jana N. Miller
    Member

    True. I loved pretty much everyone else, but Gimli and Legolas were just...The script writing was terrible for them. I didn't mind the "surfing" so much, but Legolas had all of the obvious stuff...I mean, "they're taking the hobbits to Isengard"?!!! Seriously? DUH! And you said everything I was going to say about Gimli, Tyrant.

    Posted 4 months ago #
22. pettytyrant
    Member

    Gimli is one of my favourite characters. I was sore indeed at his treatment. Particularly his love of Galadriel was done poorly, it gets a bit of an airing in the extended cut but is then completely forgotten about. And the scene where he confronts Eomer for a slur on her is important. It is the first time we see in action how far he has come form the dwarf who refused to be blindfold entering Lothlorien, to the dwarf willing to challenge an entire eoreod for a slur against elves. And when he is threatened in return Legolas doesn't hesitate either to support him. That development is important. It als sets up the nice releationship betwen GImli and Eomer culminating after Aragorns wedding when Eomer tells Gimli he cannot say Galdriel is the fairest becaseu he has seen Arwen. And Gimli forgives him saying something like "You have choosen the twilight".
    All that character stuff is lost completely.
    I miss too the Gimli who begs Legolas not to heed the crying of the gulls at Pelargir, and who laments that the world will be poorer for those left behind if all the elves leave it.
    And I miss the genuine Tolkien comedy that arises, like when they are riding to Isengard and Legolas wants to see the 'eyes' in the forest as the Hourns pass, and rides towards them, with Gimli stuck behind him wanting off "I don't want to see any eyes!" That image makes me chuckle everytime.
    PJ's Gimli is someone else entirely. Someone one-dimensional.

    Posted 4 months ago #
23. Joel Becker
    Member

    Aren't people jumping the gun a little on the troll scene? Perhaps the dwarves charge in ready for a fight but end up getting "sacked," so to speak, anyway. Then Gandalf shows up, yada yada yada. I'm hoping that's how it'll turn out, since it's obvious there's some fighting going on there; and don't forget that Thorin bloodied one of the trolls in the book.

    Posted 4 months ago #
24. julia mellor
    Member

    Gimli is my favorite character and I know all his various merits, and when I watch the films I layer over what I see in the films with what I know about his character from the books, as I said I find some of his dialogue heavy handed, its true he could have been more sensitively portrayed by PJ and co, there were so many things left out as you said, but I still find myself liking the way he was acted, I can see past the mistakes and it doesnt make me crabbit when I see the films.

    Posted 4 months ago #
25. Ataralasse
    Member

    I'm impressed with the preview. I am SO happy they've included the dwarves song, and apparently they've included the dish washing song, at least for the extended version which we all know will happen.
    I've loved Tolkiens writing since I was 8, and my take on it is that the books are a delight, and the movies are a delight of another sort. Let each be what they are, and enjoy them for their own merit.

    Posted 4 months ago #
26. Kendalf
    Member

    @pettytyrant
    "I've watched the trailer again and besides Gandalfs line to Bilbo near the start there is no Tolkien based dialogue"
    It's a two and a half minute teaser one year from the release of the film. Let's not condemn Jackson & Co. on the strength of that, eh? Besides, the inclusion of the song should be more than enough to counter your concern, in fact; they're clearly prepared to include something as resolutely unfashionable as (Tolkien-scripted) folk-music in their multi-million dollar opus, so why the doubt?

    "...resulting in the complete destruction of the characters you mention"
    I think this is way, way, way too extreme a claim and totally unfair. Ok, so you didn't get Gimli's defence of Galadriel against Eomer but you can't have everything. You got his resentment of Legolas at the Council, his bewitchment in Lothlorien, the beautiful scene in the canoe where he sighs "She gave me three", his consideration of Legolas as a friend by the end RotK. The arc is there. And besides, the comedy was a hit with audiences. I remember very clearly the laughs in the cinema at the "You could have picked a better spot!" line and his "We dwarves are natural sprinters, you know; very dangerous over short distances" is the funniest line in the trilogy.

    Anyway, back to the trailer, right?

    @Joel
    Yep, I too expect that the trolls will best the dwarves and they'll end up in their sacks (or something similar). I don't think we've much to worry about there.

    @Ataralasse
    "the books are a delight, and the movies are a delight of another sort"
    Couldn't have put it better myself. Nice.

    Posted 4 months ago #
27. Todd VanDelinder
    Member

    WHEEEEEEEW!!!!!!!!!!!! damn its good to be back on here I was getting tired of pissing off all new people LOL...

    Anyways I liked the trailer there were some obvious things that stood out but they have a whole year of post production to work on things. The axe in Bifur's head still bugs me, and I think Kili looks more like a elf with 5 o'clock shadow more than ever but its all good.

    How did I know Jason wouldn't like the dialogue we did get LOL some things never change. damn I missed being able to rant and converse with the regular people

    Posted 4 months ago #
28. pettytyrant
    Member

    Merry, Pippin, Gimli, Faramir, Aragorn, Denethor,Frodo- all fundementally altered, or acting with completely different motivations or wrongly presented and understood.
    Seems pretty poor to me.

    Posted 4 months ago #
29. Todd VanDelinder
    Member

    I do have to say when the dwarfs started singing in the trailer it did give me chills. I actually got goosebumps and the hair on my arms stood up. I was however not impressed with the line Gandalf delivered in the beginning of the trailer Bilbo Baggins, I am looking for someone to share in an adventure" just that line felt out of place for some reason. might have been the context of the trailer but it just didn't do it for me at this point. I did like Thorin telling Gandalf he would not be responsible for Bilbo's fate though

    Posted 4 months ago #
30. Jana N. Miller
    Member

    lol. Yes, when I couldn't log on with Facebook, I was most unhappy...lol...Especially with the trailer coming out!

    I loved the song!!! It was just how I imagined it, even the tune was very similar to the tune I had in my head.
    Todd, I think that line does fit, maybe not in the trailer out of context, but it fits the sort of thing Gandalf would have said to Bilbo. I mean, if Gandalf told Bilbo everything about it, I doubt Bilbo would have gone...

    Was that paper Bilbo was holding the contract? That's brilliant...

    Posted 4 months ago #

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