...and then she hurls chunks all over his boots...I wouldnt like to be the elf that sprays a pavement pizza on Thorins footwear.
Posted 3 months ago
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Online discussion of Peter Jackson's The Hobbit movies
The Hobbit Movie Forum » Hobbit Movie
Tauriel... Guiding the Dwarves Out ?
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Petty!
I think you've hit the nail on the head in a number of important areas...
"I suspect she may...provide the narrative link between whats going on at the Lonely Mountain and the elves, rather than just having the elves left in Mirkwood until they pop up again at the end demanding treasure"
That would make cinematic sense, because having them turn up out of the blue without having been referenced at all for the last two hours of the tale would be pretty nonsensical. As you say, Jackson needs to keep them and their interests in audiences' minds otherwise their arrival risks a major "Eh? Who's he? Oh yeah, he was in Part I last year. Sheesh, I'd forgotten about him. What's he doing here now?" moment...
"But my main problem with her is I dont think they can successfully write her...the only female elves we have any reasonable information on, dialogue for etc are Luthien, Arwen and Galadriel"
Precisely. As I said earlier, there's a very, very, very, very, very limited number of female exemplars in Tolkien's entire oeuvre, let alone Elven ones, and so _whatever_ Jackson decides to do with Tauriel to try to make her her own (s)Elf (and not simply an easily recognisable carbon-copy of the three existing templates) will be open to accusations of inappropriateness.
It's going to be really, really tricky for them. How do you design a female Elf that isn't simply a repeat of what's gone before and yet still sits comfortably with fans' perceptions of what's suitable and what's not? After all, what the Hell _is_ suitable? The Prof left us so few examples, so little to go on...
Posted 3 months ago # -
In the book we already are familiar with the Mirkwood elves. When they turn up, it's made quite clear in the book why they turn up. (They come to help the poor Lake Town folk, then thoughts turn to the now - as far as they know - unprotected treasure). There is no cinematic need to do anything but what Tolkien sets down. Don't need any girlie elves, except as extras in the background. Don't even need Galadriel really, but if we must, pleeeeeeaaase NO pyrotechnics and funny strobe lighting electrics... pleeeeease....
Posted 3 months ago # -
I pretty much completely agree with Petty and Julia, except Julia's words about Arwen; I thought the movie Arwen was crap, at least compared with what's in the book, plus the fact that Arwen replaced Glorfindel. But anyway... thumbs down to Tauriel.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Kendalf -I am inclined to think that that is a good reason not to try to write a new female elf character- its almost doomed for failure and no matter what the poor actress does its open to being hated by fans of the book and Tolkien. Just seems to me they are making a rod for their own backs with her.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Petty - "its almost doomed for failure (as) no matter what the poor actress does its open to being hated by fans"
Yep. But, unlike some, I'm not so keen on condemning her invention and portrayal until I've seen the finished product and wish them all the best in trying to forge an "acceptable" character for her.
It's going to be tough!
Posted 3 months ago # -
I wish them all the best but all past experience tells me to brace for the worst as its far more likely to turn up!
Posted 3 months ago # -
I dont think book Arwen was all that well rounded and present, she was just a beautiful statue in the book so comparing her with Arwen in the film is not very helpful. I liked the way she was given more character and action in the film, and Liv did a good job I thought.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Ayup All...
Shirley with E.L.'s Announcement, All she'll really be,truth to tell, is a female version of Legolas ?
I mean we don't know too much of what Orly's doing. Other than 'Being there' in NZ. Obviously he'd be present as a Character in his Daddys Palace, but 60 Yrs, erm, 'Younger' and maybe as a Kid not really eligible to join Thranduil at The Lonely Mountain on Campaign...
Maybe he (Orly), will shoot some scenes, (or even just Voicepver ?) and be CGI'd to said Kiddies Body, or have his features Digitally Composited to look well, Like a child, but still recognisable as 'Legolas' ? Does that sound Plausible ?
Posted 3 months ago # -
Ayup Orwel...
Did you say 'Lady Elf' and 'Strobe Lights'... ? With a Push-Up Cuirass ? Did you forget the Pole for her to slither around too ? AWOOOOOOOOOOOOO ! SMOKIN' !
Posted 3 months ago # -
A female Legolas? I think that can't be far off the mark, maybe with a little of Gamling's type of role thrown in, too. I see her, possibly, as a little more martial...
As for Legolas himself, I think he'll appear unchanged, basically, as his incredibly long life span will mean that, only 60 years before the events of LotR, he'd look roughly the same, wouldn't he?
Posted 3 months ago # -
Ayup Ken...
Would he ? It's like the difference between a 12 Yr old and a 16 Yr old... Unless they're named Vicky Pollard... ;)
Then I'd have thought that Tauriel wouldn't be needed AT ALL, as most of what she seems to be about, could be done By Leggy...
Posted 3 months ago # -
Legolas: I'm not sure, but I expect him to be the Legolas we know, whether it's chronologically "correct" or not.
Tauriel: Well, yes, which is why I suspect she'll be a bit more military in nature and officious in her character to distinguish her from him.
Supposition? What supposition? ;-)
Posted 3 months ago # -
Don't get me wrong, Julia, I thought Liv Tyler did a great job acting the part she was given (and she looked the part too). However, I liked in the book that Arwen was kind of backstagey. In the movie, there was too much added for my taste, and there was some detracted, such as Aragorn only being able to marry her if he was king of Gondor and Arnor. I think my main problem with movie Arwen is that she replaced Glorfindel, and he was a really cool character.
Actually, I think that 60 years for Legolas would be like the difference between a 25 year old and a 25 year old.
Posted 3 months ago # -
I think when you look at the direction they ended up going with Arwen, she probably wouldn't have been the one fleeing from the black Riders at the ford were PJ and co. able to go back and do it over again. They started out wanting to make her a warrior maiden who was going to be swinging a sword at Helm's Deep, but then realised that it wasn't the right direction. When you look at where they went, the Arwen of FOTR is almost a different character than the one of TT and ROTK. Had they planned to do her like this from the start, I think we probably still would have been deprived of Glorfindel, but we would have had an earlier introduction to Legolas; similar to what they did in the Bakshi cartoon. A final thought, and I need to say that having elves at Helm's Deep was not ok, but if they HAD decided to have Glorfindel show up when he does in the book, they could have used him to lead the elf army that shows up at Helm's Deep instead of a throwaway character like Haldir. It also would have made more sense having Glorfindel bringing greetings from Elrond instead of Haldir.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Logical as always, Marvin. Indeed, I agree with you on all points, I think. Although, I thought it kind of sucked that they killed off Haldir when he didn't die in the books. But he also wasn't at Helm's Deep in the book, so...
Posted 3 months ago # -
Yeah, Haldir's demise was unfortunate, but I'm pretty sure they did it to add a death with a little more emotion attached to it as there were no major character deaths at Helm's Deep. It's for this reason that I fully expect to see Tauriel bite it at the BO5A, as there are no major elf deaths in the book. When it happens I'll know that joyful shriek I hear is you, Julia.
Posted 3 months ago # -
"They started out wanting to make her a warrior maiden who was going to be swinging a sword at Helm's Deep, but then realised that it wasn't the right direction."- Marvin
I have always said poor Liv has an impossible task as she plays about 3 diferent interpretations of Arwen that were chopped and changed as they went and then PJ sticks stuff shot when she was playing it one way next to stuff shot when she is playing it another way- similar seems to have happened with Eowyn- its one of the very big problems with the script, if you can call a work inprogreess as you film a script.
"It also would have made more sense having Glorfindel bringing greetings from Elrond instead of Haldir."
But not much as for an elven army to get from Rivendell they would need to have set out not much later after the Fellowship did, but of course they couldn't have known there would be battle to set out for, the same problem exists of course for an army coming from Lothlorien, just less so as its a bit closer, but nowhere near close enough.
But hey what's it matter anyway- come dawn the entire elven army will have evaporated like so much pixie dust never to be mentioned again anyway!
Dont know about anyone else but I would be ashamed to admit coming up with that change if it were my script- Eru knows why they're not ashamed-they should be.Posted 3 months ago # -
Ayup Jason and Co...
But don't you all think it was great to see the Elves in Action once more? They disappear Completely out of the story from the Company leaving Lothlorien to Aragorns wedding. I think it was great to see ALL the main races of ME united against Sauron once more. Watching Haldir Die, ALWAYS makes me cry like a Baby ! and I actually get a sense of Valinor from that death scene. (which is where I want to go actually, not Mount Doom). Really. Along with Gandys 'Eye' thing as he recounts being sent back to ME.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Marvin, yep the shouting from the peanut gallery will be me when she bites it! lol.
Posted 3 months ago # -
I think Arwen was pretty consistent throughout the film, she was always the soft spoken elven maiden, the only time she deviated was for the Fords against the Wraiths, and that was not exactly her drop kicking and karate chopping akimbo. It was a dangerous situation so she did her best to protect Frodo, its completely within the bounds of possibility as i am sure all Elves are handy in a pinch. She was always floating about in her lovely frocks looking gorgeous, and I see absolutely no problem with the way they developed her character. I am glad however they decided to cut her at Helms Deep, as that would have been a bit out of character, but they realized this and cut the scenes. I would have liked to see Glorfindel and the bells ringing on his white horse, but she was introduced as this elven maiden with one foot in the immortal world, and another foot ready to give practical aid when needed. where anyone gets 3 different interpretations from is just plain baffling.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Although I would have preferred the way the Helm's Deep kerfuffle to have been built up and resolved the same way that it was in the book (which I found much more gripping), I didn't mine the Elves showing up in the film. The only thing that actually annoyed me about that is that, as jason says, they just vanish without a trace. Not even a comment of recognition or anything. That is the sort of hole that I really notice in films and I did while watching it. Things like the impossibility of a marching army getting from lorien to Helm's Deep in that time frame didn't figure in my head until well after the event.
Posted 3 months ago # -
BTW - does anyone have any idea of the style of the Mirkwood Elves armour? I assume that they are not going to turn up without any on but at the same time I wouldn't expect them to look like soldiers from any of the other Elven kingdoms.
Posted 3 months ago # -
love questions like that, me being a costume freak, erm I think the armour will reflect the more rustic foresty feel of Mirkwood, in other threads we have thought of various styles including leaf and vine motifs, obviously it wont be "high" elvitude like Lothlorien or Rivendell, but maybe using more green and earthen colours, rather than gray and silver. We thought the palace of Thranduil will be full of carved furniture, maybe in arts and crafts style of William Morris, not Art Nouveau like for Rivendell. Maybe instead of plate armour, they will have the velvet and silk padded armour they used in the orient and under metal armour in the middle ages. As they are used to fighting in forests where clanking armour is no use in a stealth situation.
Posted 3 months ago # -
There isn't really any description of Oropher's army when they took part in the last alliance. I wonder if they had armour biffiting an open, pitched battle like that?
I could see something similar to what you descrive, more tough material type protection designed for guerilla tactics instead of of war.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Ayup Lance...
I guess that facet of Dagorlad and other LA Battles was pushed aside pretty Quickly, if it was known about at all . In any case he (Oropher) charged before he was 'Told' as distinct from taking part in the standing whooshing battle line in the FOTR preview, and lost his own life and 2/3rds of his Mens before the get-go, so I guess were considered very Inconsequential. In Battles like those, an Elf is an Elf is an Elf...
In Thranduils Palace, I'd like to see chairs woven out of the very Tree Roots, and Tables too.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Stu - considering the detail that a lot of the battles go in to, especially in the first 2 ages, it is quite surprising to me that there is very little known about the battles of the last alliance other than the showreel headlines.
The battle of unnumbered tears, sudden flame, fall of gondolin etc all have very detailed descriptions of the campaigns and who was involved and what they did. Being such a huge moment in the history of ME and relatively recent against the largest published works, the last alliance has very little coverage.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Re Thranduils palace, I wonder if we will actually see a bit more influence of men since they traded closely. I can't remember the exact desciption of the place either.... isn't it set in caves rather than trees which is more of Lorien's staple.
I wonder if they will try and make them look heavier, somewhere between the stylings of Lorien Elves and Dwarves. A little more rough and ready than the polished, crispness of the Elves we know. Legolas was a little more like that in the clothes that he wore when compared to the garments and armours worn by the others.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Ayup Lance...
100% Agree.
As a first-time reader of the Silmarillion and LOTR, I was always miffed at the relative lack of detail, and also about The Dead Marshes, which is a location I love !
Posted 3 months ago # -
Ayup Lance...
But the tree roots could hang through the Ceiling from above, tree roots are reknowned for cracking rock, and could be trained down the walls... How about shields made from Spider Exoskellingtons ?
Posted 3 months ago #
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