The Hobbit Movie Forum

[Poor Knight]

Even though it may be more aimed at the younger audience, I actually found the Prydain series by Lloyd Alexander (The Black Cauldron, the Book of Three, etc...) to be the most visceral, immersive, well-written and just plain exciting fantasy stories I've read to date. It was unfortunately butchered beyond all recognition by a failed Disney attempt, but I hope that doesn't prevent some wise movie company from one day doing the entire series. I loved its infusion of welsh mythology.

I guess, for a more gritty and adult (as in mature, not naughty!) fantasy novel, my favourite was the one about Kane. I can't even remember the name of the author, to be honest! Maybe someone can help me out. I won the book as an art prize back in junior highschool.

[Odo Banks]

I liked the first three Prydain books very much, but read them so long ago I can remember little of them (the last two? books only came out after I'd been distracted away by lots of other books). Have been meaning to read the series again. The upside for me is that I really enjoyed the Disney movie because I didn't compare it all that much to the books. Thanks for reminding me. I must get hold of those books.

Odo

[Gandalfs Beard]

I loved the Prydain books myself, steeped as they are in rich Celtic Mythology (though made a little less gruesome for the "kiddies"). It's been years since I read them, but I think I've found my set recently in a couple of old book boxes. I'm definitely going to pull them out for a re-read. I actually posted a link to a picture I drew of Taran and Eilonwy in the first post on the Fantasy Art thread.

I have to admit, one thing which always puzzled me about Tolkien, was why he thought Britain didn't have it's own ancient myths. I'm glad he decided to write his own Myth for Britain, but the Celtic myths of Britain and Ireland seem fairly distinct from the other myths of Old Europe to me. Heck, Prydain/Britain are clear variants of the same name.

I had thought it might be due to the Celts not being "indigenous" to Britain, but the more I try to learn, the murkier Britain's past seems to be. Celts and Picts shared so many features that other than the lost Pictish language it's quite difficult to separate them and there is little certainty about who really were the first inhabitants of Britain and Ireland. In fact some scholars argue that the Picts were Celts too.

In any case, the religion/mythology that was developed in Britain and Ireland had it's own unique spin on the Indo-European pantheon.

GB

[Poor Knight]

I had the whole series as a birthday gift back in primary school...but moved houses so many times that I lost them. Took me forever to finally track down a complete set I could buy again... Unfortunately, didn't have the covers I remembered from my childhood...

Also, sad that it was so hard to find! It means today's generation of young readers are not having the opportunity to read the adventures of Taran, feisty Eilonwy, brave Gurgi and the suffering Fflewdur Fflam...

Instead, they are misled into believing that the Harry Potter series represents high quality children's literature.

Besides being a great book, I also like all the moral and life lessons it teaches...and the transformation you see in Taran from the beginning to the end.

All about friendship and self-sacrifice.

Sorry for my ranting...it always gets under my skin when I hear people talk about how great the Potter series is...and I tell them, "read the Prydain series!"

[Gandalfs Beard]

Well, the Potter books are very different from Prydain tis true . But they are both brilliant (in my opinion ). The Potter series is closer in sub-genre and tone to Dahl and Lewis (the interaction between moderns and the Fantastic), whereas Prydain is closer to Tolkien insofar as it tends to full immersion in a "Historic" yet Fantastic past of our modern world.

Part of the problem of lack of availabilty of older books such as Prydain in local bookstores has a lot to do with consolidation of media and publishing conglomerates. Many bookstores now carry mostly recently published books and only a few of the most popular "old" series. But many of the older books are still widely available online at least, and a few of the more comprehensive and used bookshops.

The Black Cauldron was on TV here the other night, so I recorded it to re-watch later. I remember it had some good moments and some nice visuals. The fact it still shows from time to time helps to keep the books alive. How do you remember The Black Cauldron film PK? Mostly positive or negative?

GB

[Poor Knight]

Well, the Potter books are very different from Prydain tis true . But they are both brilliant (in my opinion ). The Potter series is closer in sub-genre and tone to Dahl and Lewis (the interaction between moderns and the Fantastic), whereas Prydain is closer to Tolkien insofar as it tends to full immersion in a "Historic" yet Fantastic past of our modern world.

We'll DEFINITELY have to agree to disagree on that one GB!!!
Of course, as you say, the genre is a bit different...and the Potter series has a lot of influence from the Dahl books...but also from the Tolkien books...in fact, though I'm sure it's been examined ad nauseum by others, I suspect it might get more of the tone from Dahl but a lot of the plot and character elements seem to be from Tolkien (the evil lord who was vanquished long ago coming back being the most obvious one for me).

The good thing about the Potter series I will grant you is that it HAS got a lot of younger people reading again...if only for a moment.

The Black Cauldron was on TV here the other night, so I recorded it to re-watch later. I remember it had some good moments and some nice visuals. The fact it still shows from time to time helps to keep the books alive. How do you remember The Black Cauldron film PK? Mostly positive or negative?

I remember the Black Cauldron with utter horror (in a bad way). And I'm not one of those people for whom "Disney" is a bad word. I love all the old Disney movies and some of the new ones. When I first heard they were going to be working on the Black Cauldron, I could not be more thrilled. This was going to be their big breakthrough movie after a long time in the doldrums (as a matter of fact, they had to wait until the Little Mermaid for their revival). This was also going to be the first time in a long while returning to the high quality of animation that the studio used to be known for (they had gotten more 'adult' style - sketchy etc - probably starting with 101 Dalmatians). I remember hearing that they had worked 7 years on the Black Cauldron, trying to get it right.

Unfortunately (for me, others might disagree), it was an unmitigated disaster. I guess it was their first 'trial', trying to find the winning formula. I agree the quality of animation was excellent, and it had some interesting visuals, but that seemed to be the only thing they spent time working on. The characters had lost all their character, and gurgi (and his evil equivalent) did nothing but try to look as cute as possible. It was little surprise that they had no personalities, because it is hard to have any when there is no plot! At least, I couldn't see anything much resembling a plot - and certainly almost nothing resembling the books I'd read and loved. This wasn't some minor adaptation for the big screen like Tom Bombadil being cut from LOTR...this was mutilation beyond recognition.

I'm sure that my sky high expectations were also to blame. I never watched it again after the first time it came out (which was in the 80s) so it's quite possible I might enjoy it a bit more upon second viewing.

I still REALLY hope, now that movie studios have a thing for fantasy movies with many books to make into money-spinning series, one of them DOES do a really full-on production of the Prydain series, and a movie per every book in the series as it deserves. I'm enjoying watching the Narnia series, but as fond as I am of the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, it is NOT the best written series! Just hope more people discover and enjoy the Prydain series as I have.

[Odo Banks]

I am in a slightly confused state over Harry Potter. On one hand, I believe they are imaginative and well written books, and probably an excellent read if you can get into them properly. I've managed the first three and thought them quite good. Unfortunately, I just don't think her books are as uncluttered as Tolkien's. She obviously crams in a lot of stuff she gleaned from the writers who preceded her, along with the fruits of her research into history, but she does not seem to wear her knowledge lightly. Too many ideas in the text, rather than stuff written between the lines! Tolkien was subtle. His learning is there, but it's worn lightly. As to JKR's style, it's somewhat inferior to T's, I fear.

As to any comparison of JKR with Dahl, I frankly can't see it. Potter is humorous in part, yes, but not Dahlish, surely!? JKR is far 'safer' than Dahl ever is. Dahl (and Jack Vance, too!) are geniuses of their medium. I don't think JKR, however good she is, comes close.

As to Prydain, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I can't remember a lot from the books. What I do remember is that they impressed me almost as much as The Hobbit when I read them. I know I read the first three books avidly.

As to Gurgi. The Disney Gurgi I knew was almost nothing like what I remembered from the books. Still, I'm lucky I can like both Disney Gurgi and Book Gurgi. And, yes, all the Disney characters were a bit flat somehow in comparison.

I must read those Prydain books again. A friend of mine has the whole series and loves them. I must borrow same!

Odo

[Gandalfs Beard]

As far as the Disney film goes, I'm a bit ambivalent. I enjoyed the visuals, and there were a few good scenes, but I agree the characterizations were lacking. But it's been years since I've seen it, so my memory of it is hazy. I'll probably watch The Black Cauldron this weekend and see what I think I now.

GB

[Zeonista]

I first read the Prydain series when I was in Junior High, oh so many years ago, when I was desperately searching for the next Tolkien-like series. It did not disappoint; Alexander, like Tolkien in [i]The Hobbit[i], was speaking to youngsters without being condescending, and acknowledging the presence of adults following the story in the room. Taran's growth from being a not-so heroic Pig Keeper, to decidedly heroic second-in-command of thee forces resisting Annuvin, has always been a source of encouragement to me. I recently passed along my set of books to my niece, who has become old enough to read the books, and enjoy them. I suspect she will especially like Eilonwy, as there is something of a resemblance, hair color or no.

[Odo Banks]

Funny how these things come. I have finished the first draft of a fantasy novel and one of my characters reminds me of someone. I couldn't think of who until now. Eilonwy! Now I'm even keener to reread those books!

Odo