The Hobbit Movie Forum

[Gandalfs Beard]

Was it something I said??? Where is everyone? I'll try not to be weird. Please...someone...come back...sob!!!

Gandalfs Beard

[Otto's World]

Oh no!! GB...
I lost my stride due to events happening here so I felt guilty really delving in. So I just started lurking.

I HAVE been thinking of your points about chivalry and the sacred feminine and paganism and such. I've been dabbling around reading in Lewis's space trilogy and there's so much in it about proper order and differences in the sexes and planetary influences and such.

Nothing you did though.

[Gandalfs Beard]

Whew! *big sigh of relief* Thank's Otto's World. I hope all is well with you and your family. Actually I got in some time for reading myself. I just finished re-reading Elaine Pagels book on the Gnostic Gospels after many years. I also finished reading Tolkien's essay that I have slowly been absorbing over the past few weeks. I'm going to run back through it and make some notes in the next few days.

Gandalfs Beard

[Otto's World]

Yep. I think I need to read the Pagels book to be a good discussion participator. Right now I just have a load of vague ideas floating around about these ideas of what relationships should be...and definitions of love and relationships, and then trying to separate "eternal" ideas--ones that seem to stick and seem valuable to succeeding cultures--and ones that vary hugely. Anyway, my thoughts aren't worth putting down into paragraphs right now.

And what were you talking about with the mirror meditation? Every once in awhile I'll come across a person who knows about something--a form of prayer or worship, or some knowledge from the Eastern World, like the value of this or that herb, or this or that pressure point to achieve xyz, and it really does sound like magic, like we may as well be in Harry Potter's world.

[Gandalfs Beard]

I think that Harry Potter really does point to a sort of real "pracical magic." Not the magic of the illusionist or the manipulative magic Tolkien referred to in the essay, but real Shamanic and Monastic natural "magic" (and possibly, frightening though the notion is, Demonic magic). It should be noted that shamanism engages in the trcksterism of the illusionist--but it is to elicit a real response; tricking the mind into dropping the illusion to see what is.

I first learned of the use of the mirror in meditation through Carlos Castaneda, the Trickster himself. His works purported to be an anthropological study of Huichol Shamanism from the Sonoran desert in Mexico. The "anthropological" aspects of his works have been largely debunked....in part by real Huichol "Indians." But this just makes his works more relevant in a fashion. Castaneda was big on the whole tricking the mind thing. He fits neatly into the notion of the Trickster God, best known as Loki (from Nordic mythology) or Coyote (from real Native American shamanism). I think most of Castaneda's work is syncretic--combining Eastern practical traditions with Native American practical traditions. I may talk more about his works later.

Anyway, I'm going to move on to the mirror meditation now. In Casteneda's book, he (under the watchful eye of his mentor) places a mirror just under the surface of the water in a pond and begins to meditate. After a while his face morphs into something "demonic." The apparent entity on the other side of the glass begins to struggle to try and break through. In true Yoda fashion, his mentor steps in and stops the process, admonishing his student for losing control.

To be continued:

[Gandalfs Beard]

To continue: In any case the passage described inspired me to try mirror meditation on my own. At this time I had just moved on from New Age Chakra meditations to the real thing; Hindu Yoga and Shaolin Chi Kung (or Gong). In fact, I had dropped Yoga practice and moved on to Chi Gong after the rising Kundalini caused some serious back pain. Chi Gong focuses on dropping the energy (Chi/Kundalini) down the front of the body and centering in the Earth; whereas Yoga releases Kundalini from the base of the spine to unfurl towards the Heavens. They are both effective but this Yoga practice is far more dangerous physically as I discovered. What does all this have to do with mirror meditation, you may well ask?

I had reached a roadblock in my practice. I couldn't afford a teacher to show me how to do it right. So I was inspired to use our large bathroom mirror to aid my Chi Gong meditations. Standing in a medium horse stance, feet firmly rooted, breathing from just below my navel, in through the nose and out through the mouth, (thanks Mr Miyagi ) tip of the tongue touching the roof of the mouth on the outbreath, whole tongue pressed aginst the roof of the mouth on the in breath, (sometimes it is good to do a tongue drop while breathing if the energy gets stuck), I began. The effect was nearly instantaneous. I rapidly felt the Chi unwinding up my back and focussed, quickly dropping the energy down my front. I felt it pass down my torso and spiral down my legs corkscrewing into the Earth firmly grounding me.

The visual effects soon followed as the "third eye" opened wide. I could see my aura shifting and glowing like the northern lights (though the colour was more uniform). As I paid attention to my facial features they began to shift and change. All of a sudden I was seeing demonic faces,then hag like, then piglike. I remembered my Jungian readings and told myself these were just aspects of my unconscious mind. It worked. Calmly maintaining my breathing, I watched as my morphing face shifted now to more symmetrical features becoming at once prettier and more majestic. My aura changed colour and as I felt my crown chakra opening up the whole room was full of light and I felt the "heavenly" energies flowing down into me, through me, to rest in the Earth.

To be continued:

[Gandalfs Beard]

To continue: This experience was vastly exhilarating. I felt more energized than I had in months and my physical pains were lessened. I continued the practice fairly regularly. Sometimes under the influence of various plant based psychoactive substances. Some of the psylocibin (and even Cannabis) experiences even transcended my original experiences. The mirror meditation was an excellent way to "wrestle down my demons" at the beginning and insure a good "trip." Even the venerable Alan Watts, the Anglican minister who loved Zen has spoken glowingly of his entheogenic experiences.

Unfortunately, life has a way of interrupting regular practice. Depression and Physical pain return, making it harder to return to practice. I no longer have such a large mirror. But whenever I feel good enough, I begin my practices again and I feel better until life interrupts again. (I think I Know now why so many seek the ascetic monastic lifestyle. So they can continue practice unhindered by the constraints of modern work habits and family). But for me family, friends and Earthly Pleasures are just as important, and I have grown to accept the cyclical nature of life--it's highs and it's lows.

Before I conclude, I know I have mentioned that occasionally Vicodin is better than meditation at relieving pain. Now that I have explained more fully some of my practices I can more accurately formulate that statement. Vicodin (and other pain relievers) can make one temporarily feel well enough to begin practice again--until one is called back to "reality" by life's obligations and love of family. This may be part of the reason Jesus admonished those who were attached to their families (at least in some texts). My perspective suggests that the Gnostics view of Jesus' "Mystery Teachings" may be more accurate than the orthodox view, though there is no way one can conclusively "prove" such a thing.

Gandalfs Beard

P.S. I am thinking about describing a current three-way debate regarding the Trnity, Jesus' Divinity, and monism. But I will save that for later and post it on the Feminine thread when I get around to it. I am curious as to your thoughts on the matter, but like I said--I may save that for tomorrow.

[Otto's World]

Well, GB, I am up to p. 40 in The Gnostic Gospels, though I have a really bad cold that's going around in our area. [It's this really sloppy sneezy drippy kind of cold where you have to carry around Costo-sized boxes of Kleenex, and it feels like yor inner brains and mucuses are going to push themselves out of your head through your eyes rather than your nose. And then you take cold medicine that keeps you awake at night for days on end, and then you're really tired and you can't think worth anything, so material such as what is in The Gnostic Gospels seems like just TOO MUCH to handle.] So far I am surprised that there is nothing much about that split between matter and spirit that I thought was the big gnostic trademark. This is talking more about knowledge of God gotten from personal experience rather than from officially recognized revelation that is then taught and distributed by The Church.

Ah, the old Individual vs. The Group chestnut. So there is danger, when believers have direct experiences of God, because some of those experiences may sound different than what is currently in scripture, and so how do we know that those experiences come from GOD and not from some mischievous spirit or the person's own crazy imagination? And we must preserve some kind of integrity as a group so that we can hold ourselves together as a group and define ourselves to others. But then, wasn't it personal experience when Jacob wrestled with the angel or when Moses heard the voice from the burning bush, or when Paul had that life-changing experience on the way to Capernum? And then when we teach people to pray, what do we tell them to listen to? The answers they get or the little nudges they feel are only legit if they resemble what has already been revealed up to the point when the Bible was compiled as a single authorized body of scripture? Can't really resolve that one at all. Because even the Church itself evolves over time. Who is to say how God is allowed to speak to people? But then, you can get all kinds of craziness going if people really start praying and honestly start hearing answers that are fairly direct.

Anyway, GB. I don't have much to say about it, but I wanted you to know that I am reading the book.

Have you gotten your copy of Discarded Image yet?

[Otto's World]

GB, you said this:

I am thinking about describing a current three-way debate regarding the Trnity, Jesus' Divinity, and monism.

When you say "three way" do you mean getting some of the Narnia people involved? And I always need help and reminding about how this connects to Tolkien.

[Otto's World]

Buddhism Topic
So I live in the Northwestern U. S. right now--the Seattle area, to be more precise--and I have only been here now for three years, so I still feel like a newcomer who is trying to get to know the culture. This is a mecca for more spiritual, "woo woo" cures and practices. I like to try to jump in and experience the culture, wherever we live, and it just so happens that I got a couple of different mystery ailments soon after moving here, so that I have had reason to sample some of the more hippy-ish of the healing arts. I had my first ever bone-crunching "adjustment" series because one of my ribs popped out of its socket in my sternum. This showed up on an x-ray I had because it hurt a LOT but really felt kind of like pneumonia. Anyway, I got referred to an AWESOME doctor who is also certified in...damn my Alzheimer's...osteopathy? She cracked EVERYTHING. It was scary and awesome and eye-opening and shocking. She could have killed me by snapping my neck around like they do in spy movies, but she didn't. My hub is a doctor, so you'd think we'd know all about this stuff, but nope. It's kind of non-traditional. And then I got another mystery ailment that has no diagnosis so far but which entails feeling like s$^&# a lot of the time. So I'm trying everything I can think of as long as it doesn't seem too "woo woo." And I am in the perfect geographical spot to dive into the smorgasbord of oriental healing arts. So I've tried yoga and meditation and acupressure. No needles yet. And I haven't done meditation seriously enough or consistently enough to be really good at it.

Anyway, so a lot of the things you mention, GB, are new ideas to me that I have only encountered recently, and which I would not have given credence to before being driven to it by pain and suffering. John Kabat-Zinn is my favorite guy right now. Don't tell my husband, but I'm in love with him. And he seems totally Jesus-y. Not beard-and-sandals Jesus-y, but

oh crap. gotta go. back in a sec.