Good One Silver Dragon.

GB

I like it.

In repsonse to what Odo Banks said at the start of this thread, I agree that Frodo and Sam's relationship would be considered slightly gay had it been published in 2009 as apposed to the 1940s/1950s. I also think that in a book written today a character like Frodo's or any of the Hobbits would have been encouraged to be a bit manlier (I suppose manlier says it all really but anyway), because he is always getting carried and lifted around as if he were a child, he also does very little for him self on the quest, he gets help from the fellowship and Sam because he's a Ringbearer but I think today it would be considered going a bit beyond that.

I suppose, in conclusion, that times change, and considering Tolkien wasn't gay we can only guess the books were meant to be orientated towards a hetrosexual point of view.

Regards

Mr. Bandobras Took


P.S. Have you seen the Jack Black spoof, its quite funny

Haha, I just found this one parody... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frQ3LvbQ0AE

....And there's plenty more where that came from!

In the cases of Frodo's and Sam's relationship, though, I wouldn't say they were gay. Would Sam have married Rosie Cotten if they were really gay? No, I don't think so....

Well it is considered gay by a lot of people in the current decade, though I agree that it wasn't what Tolkien intended. I think part of the issue is that the master/servant relationship of the Victorian period and the officer/batman relationship of WWI are both long gone by now so the cultural context of audiences is changing. For people with little familiarity of Tolkien's background and context, I think it is understandable why some might jump to the conclusion that they're gay.



...not really. Frodo does a good deal on his own, though of course he has help. He makes the decision to leave the Fellowship on his own and doesn't ask Sam to come with him. He's able to assert himself over Gollum an make progress towards 'taming' him into Smeagol, but does not make the mistake of trusting Gollum or alienating Sam (unlike the movies). He's able to keep on top of things quite well until they get into Mordor itself when the Ring finally causes him to start despairing. Then, Sam steps in.



Yup, I linked to it in an earlier post. I quite like it.

Demonslyr,

I loved that youtube thingee you put on. Very clever. Very funny. I must work my way through this thread if that's indicative of what folk have posted here!

As to all the 'gay' chat on this thread - it occurs to me that perhaps Sam and Frodo were gay, but because of the times they lived in, they could not fulfill their love (at least no publicly). Perhaps that's why Frodo went to Valinor in the end - to seek relief from his unrequited love. Also, did you notice Rosie Cotton never talks. Is this because in the (secret) gay hobbit world, women can't say anything of value so must remain silent, and yet they still exist physically, having some use as cattle (chattels?) for breeding purposes - you know, for the breeding of more gay children. This is another of Sam's sacrifices, you see, that we did not know about. Sam has chosen to be bi-sexual so the gay line will never die out? If I'm right about this, Tolkien's work is even deeper than I thought. Wow!

Odo

Good One Odo. You might have something there .

GB

Very Funny Odo'! I think you might have a point there Eldorian, maybe I'm not as familiar with the text as had thought before, I need to get my facts straight on Frodo , I sort of meant to say the sacrefice and challenges he faces are psycological ones as oposed to physical ones. I suppose I also meant to say that Sam and Frodo appear gay when reading the text in today's world, I was never suggesting they were actually homosexual , I'm not suggesting Sam was that fond of master .

Regards

Bandobras

It seems I was all off in this thread. I bow to Odo's superior perception!



While I definitely don't want to downplay the psychological challenges Frodo went through, he did sustain physical wounds twice (from the Witch-king on Weathertop and from Shelob). Admittedly though, these were intimately tied to the psychological troubles. I think the physical trek to Mount Doom, especially once in Mordor proper, took its toll as well, but again, this was exacerbated by the psychological effects of the Ring.



I agree with you on that, I was trying to say the same thing about people reading the text that way in a modern context.

He did sustain the physical injury on weathertop, but had it been a normal blade, i.e. not one from mordor (is it called a morgal blade, i can't remember) he would have recovered much quicker and the effects would have almost completely worn off eventually, the stab he obtains from the blade unfortunately causes other physiological problems as you pointed out. Thinking about it now maybe Frodo does get knocked about a bit but not as severely as the others had i.e. Boromir dies. Frodo also gets stabbed by an Orc chief in Moria but thanks to his Mithril coat he's okey dokey, whereas Sam sustains a flesh wound.

Bandobras