The Hobbit Movie Forum

[hObBiTzWiLlEaTyOu]

The silmarillion in its entirety cant be done in one movie. Period. I dont think we have to debate that. I personally think the Silmarillion would make an epic animated film.

I do NOT mean animated like the old hobbit cartoon, or disney animation. If you want to see great graphics, look to video games or Japan. Anyone see Paprika. Watch Speed Racer (yes, I kow its a kids movie but Im in love with it) Half the time I cant tell whether things have been filmed or created. That technique applied to a fantasy world would be superb. Think of what happens in the book. Think of the worlds and the sights. Think of the Two Trees and the wars between the valar and Melkor. They skew, destroy, and recreate the geography of the WORLD at least twice. How about the first dawn of the sun? "Than Anar arose in glory, and the first dawn of the Sun was like a great fire upon the great towers of the Pelori; and the coulds of Middle Earth were kindled, and there was heard the sound of many waterfalls." (silmarillion, Of the Sun and Moon) I found this picture and thought it would be perfect for that scene: http://airage.deviantart.com/art/Foreign-skies-39355081

Not even to get into the denziens that inhabit populate the story. Who would play Luthien? How about Manwe?

Maybe Its just because Im an artist, but Ive seen the incredible pictures and scenes that can be created digitally and have full faith in animators to create an utterly stunning film of the SIlmarillion. For the beginning, the music of Iluvatar, I think a close up on fenorian letters ( not the tengwar, the older versions of script) would work well. For images, I think something like a simulation of the Big Bang (obviously, slowed down) and the unfurling of the music and the ainur might suffice. Ive always found pictures of galaxies and nebulas a calling to the imagination. Okay, Ive kinda ran on a bit but Im being chased off the internet. Peace~

[Beren]

I think that, with today's technology, they could do a much better job just using CGI along with live action, like they did with LOTR. An entirely animated version just doesn't appeal to me. The more live-action, the more real it is. I realize that the CGI (although the best of the time) in LOTR is starting to look dated. So think of how much better the technology is now, and think about what they could do. But, like Jackson, I am for as much live-action as possible. Instead of building CGI versions, Jackson filmed miniatures of Helms Deep, Isenguard, Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, etc. I think that the more film you actually use, the better. There is no substitute for real-life, no matter how real CGI looks.

[Show]

And if you watch the extras with the movies, there was a lot of good and fun with the miniatures. Or bigatures as they came to be known.
I liked Jackson's approach. He didn't go with just one choice, he used whatever would work better for the shot. So the Watcher's tentacles were CGI. Animatronics or mini's just couldn't get the dynamics he wanted. But adding the water and splashing took a real extra umpf of work.
Then look at things like the water horses in FotR when they crossed the ford by Rivendell. I can not fathom how that could be done in a practical sense with mini's.

What about using a strictly motion capture system like they did for Beowulf? Motion capture really worked well for Gollum. If memory serves Gollum was redesigned to bring in all the facial contortions and physicality that Andy Serkis was doing when he would perform his lines. So not only did he provide the voice, but he really did provide the physical performance for the character as well.

In truth, animated may be (in my mind) the safest road for Silmarillion. Especially for continuity purposes. Many of the elves are left unchanged from beginning to end. And yet many men characters have to age a lot throughout the entire story. I personally think it would work better than using makeup to achieve all the age changes. But maybe I'm wrong. Also it will take time and funding to convince any studio to create films for the entirety of the story. Digital animation would allow character to remain visually intact, even if voice actors do not. There is also a potential for cost effectiveness for later films to avoid returning actor cost. (This may be a jaded comment, but it could easily happen)

There is no substitute for real-life, no matter how real CGI looks.

This may be true, but then perhaps adding CGI into the middle of a real shot would look worse than a pure CGI shot without any real elements? Just a thought.

[Beren]

Well, take your example of the water horses in FOTR. Of course, that cannot be done with a miniature. But it's a great example of how you can meld CGI with live-action. Another example with water would be the river-god in Prince Caspian. The river and surrounding elements were from real footage, but they used CGI water to create the river god rising out of the river. I'm not sure if the CGI was the best (you could tell at points which water droplets were real and which were CGI), but it's an example of how it's done. I just feel like using just animation limits the depth of the story, and it takes away from the realism. If the movie-makers have every option open to them (live-action, bigatures, CGI, motion capture, everything), then they will be most able to bring it to life.

I know I'm being kind of intolerant to the animated option, but this is something that I feel strongly about.

I agree that, if they want to do the WHOLE Silmarillion, then it would be difficult using the same actor over and over again, especially for the Elves. But, personally, I think it would work best all around if they didn't try to do the whole book, but only did the big three. If they filmed these like they filmed LOTR (simultaniously), then people who are in all three (Thingol, for example) would not age all that much.

[Show]

Ok, OK! I got it!

You make the big three:
Beren and Luthien
Turin Turimbar
Fall of Gondolin
You do these three in live action with all the trimmings, LotR style with the actors and the whole shebang.

Then you have smaller (re:2-2 1/2 hours) animated films that fill the rest of the novel!

Similar to the use of Chronicles of Riddick: Dark Fury and the Animatrix films.

You just need the some of the same people running the show to maintain a visual continuity.

[aureentuluva]

@ hObBiTzWiLlEaTyOu: Fantastic picture.. would absolutely suit the scene u described..

[Felagund]

Ok here's my honest POV.

The first portions of the Silmarillion which essentially deal with Elves and Valar are not really good screen material. They are just too beautiful and complex for cinema. The other problem is CONTINUITY. Not everyone who goes to see these movies will be die hard TOLKIEN fans, many will just have liked the LOTR films and expect much the same. For a wide commerical spread these films need continuity of characters which means that some slight liberty may have to be taken with dates of events and some more minor characters may have to be cut out or combined.

Everything from the Music of the Ainur to the start of the Siege of Angband should be covered and condensed into a 15 minure intro to the first movie, leaving many details out to draw the viewers interests and be discovered as the films progress eg Finrod and Amarie love story.

The first movie proper after the intro should begin with the Battle of Sudden flame and the death of Fingolfin in his fight with Morgoth. This can then lead perfectly on too the Beren and Luthien. We have Movie 1. In this film the relationship between Beren and Hurin and his brother can be made more significant, as if they actually are friends. This is because a movie cannot have whole random lists of characters with no relationship to one another. The first film will end with Luthien defeating Sauron and Hurin and Hour leaving for the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. The timeframe between these two events can be condensed and Turin and Tuor can be made a little older than in the book (instead of being just born older children eg 11 or 13) and be visible characters so that the end of this film can lead onto the second with continuity of main characters.

Movie two should begin with Beren and Luthien stealing the Silmaril from Morgoth and the remainder of that tale. It will deal with the tragedy of Unnumbered Tears and will follow the story of the two sets of cousins Turin and Tuor, continually shifting back to Hurin sitting on Morgoth's seat having to watch his family being torn apart. It will end with Tuor reaching Gondolin and Turin Nargothrond where he meets Finduilas.

Movie will begin again with a vision of Hurin still sitting on Morgoth's seat and will complete the tales of the Children of Hurin, the Fall of Gondolin and Beren and Luthien. It will involve Beren and Luthien giving birth to their child Dior and the Sack of Menegroth, Fall of Gondolin etc. It will end with Beren and Dior routing the Dwarves, Gondolin falling and Tuor and his family safely escaping. Dior will be crowned King of Doriath. It will show his death and the fall of Doriath but the survival of Elwing who will meet her future husband Earendil. The film can end with Earendil leaving on his ship and finding Valinor and petinioning to the Valar on behalf of Beren and Luthien, thus completeing the quest set up by his forefathers and Elwing's (Beren and Luthien, Tuor, Dior). In the final sequences of the movie there can be images of the final battle and the sinking of Beleriand.

A perfect trilogy in my POV but I know "puritans" won't like it, but we have to be realistic.

[zard0z]

It would probably take a series of movies to convey the story properly...

I like Otto's idea of how to portray the Music of Auir.