The Hobbit Movie Forum

[Beren]

This is why I will accept that WWI and WWII influenced much of LotR, I will not accept direct correlations between the two.

I think I'm much like you in this way, Show, but less accepting. Of course, WWI and WWII influenced Tolkien as a person, just as anything that big would influence people. But I'm not sure if it influenced LOTR. In fact, from what Tolkien says,

The real war does not resemble the legendary war in its process or its conclusion.

it seems as if he was trying NOT for the War to influence his work. He was working on the Silmarillion before, during, and after LOTR, and the Silmarillion was wholly independent of the Wars. He wanted to connect LOTR with the Silmarillion, not the Wars.

[Gandalfs Beard]

I concur with your point Beren. Tolkien was quite explicit when asked about the Wars influencing his works. That being said, his feelings about the wars in general no doubt influenced his works.

Gandalfs Beard

[Show]

Beren and Beard, we are in perfect agreement. The LotR is very applicable to WWI and WWII, but are not allegory. I see the applicability of it because I view the Nazi's as evil and the Allies as good. As peace could be made with the Easternlies after war, so could peace be made between USA and Japan. Is it the same? No, but it can apply.

@ Otto, my reason for choosing death is for the circumstances that they shout it. I'll tackle the book first. The shout of death was begun by Eomer after Theodin fell. It's been a while since I read it, so bear with me. Often in War or Battle, if you kill the head (King) the rest just goes to pieces. Eomer took over in that moment, bringing the Death that the darkness brings to bear and work in his favor.

Now for the movie. Rohan came upon the Pelennor and saw a great, great, great big army laying siege to Minas Tirith. Most rational people would likely turn tale and run. Really there was no hope of victory. The cry of Death was simple and straightforward. The Rohirim knew that they would likely die in this battle, but the battle had to be fought anyway. As Sam said, "Some things are worth fighting for". They accepted their own likely death and brought it to their enemies as well.

Even "Band of Brothers", the HBO mini series set in WWII said something similar. The only way to really accomplish what has to be done in war is to accept the fact that you are already dead. Once you accept that, you are free to do what needs doing.

[Otto's World]

The only way to really accomplish what has to be done in war is to accept the fact that you are already dead. Once you accept that, you are free to do what needs doing.

Oooo...nice. I like that one a lot. Thanks. (We need a "smilies" icon for IMPRESSED)

[Gandalfs Beard]

Yeah Otto's World, Show does that for me Too. Ady can you serve us up afew more smilies?

Gandalfs Beard

[Arwen08]

I believe this is how it goes
" There will be day when the heart of men will fail,when swords will be broken, when shields will shatter....but it not this day" -Aragorn at the last battle near the gates of Mordor.

love LotR. love it

[Show]

Good one Arwen. I know there is much more to it, but I need to go rewatch to get it all. He works the word fellowship into the speech as I recall.

Another one for the list. "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

[Beren]

Here's the full quote:
"A day may come when the courage of men fails. When we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship. But it is not this day. An hour of wolves, and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we FIGHT! By all that you hold dear, on this good earth, I bid you STAND! Men of the West!!"

[Gandalfs Beard]

Hey Show, I could only think of that quote when McCain blew his "I couln't agree with you less" line at a rally last year . It reminded me so much of Bilbo's line (except Bilbo's line was intelligent and correct when you work it through). But it had the same effect on the crowd . I still pee my pants when I think of it.

Gandalfs Beard

[Durin]

Favorite quote from The Lord of the Rings: " 'I wish it need not have happened in my time,' said Frodo.
'So do I,' said Gandalf, 'And so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.' " (The Fellowship of the Ring). This, I think about my life now! I wish I lived back in Frodo's time, but not with all of the Uruks and such. Life was just so simple and merry It just makes me so sad that I live in this time, but Gandalf encourages me

From the Hobbit my Favorite Quote is:

Roads go ever ever on,
Over rock and under tree,
By caves where never sun has shone,
By streams that never find the sea;
Over snow by winter sown,
And through the merry flowers of June,
Over grass and over stone,
And under mountains in the moon.
Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star,
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.