The Hobbit Movie Forum

[Odo Banks]

I like the way things are going. We should start doing outlines I reckon.

Opening Sequence (Scene One?)(over basic credits):

Gorlim comes to his deserted village in the trees. Sees light in window. Creeps up and sees his wife. As he watches her in happy disbelief, Orcs jump him. He's dragged off to their camp somewhere in Dorthonion. Some torture (and taunting) goes on. Gorlim resists blabbing, but at last asks about his wife. Orcs give snide looks to each other and take Gorlim before Sauron (who is in a pavillion or similar - can't have him sitting around the camp fire!) Gorlim spills his guts when Sauron (cunningly) suggests Gorlim might "join" his wife. As Sauron walks out to send his Orcs to Barahir's hide-out, he says as aside to his chief torturer-orc: "Take him [Gorlim} to his dear wife - [as aside] but no need to hurry." (As in 'kill Gorlim slowly', or something sinister like that). (NB Gorlim's wife is called Eilenen or similar - sorry about spelling, I've got no access to Tolkien at present!)

Next (Scene Two?):

Show Orcs surrounding Barahir's hideout before first light... The Orc Captain grins evily...

Next (Scene Three?):

We have Beren asleep out in the heather somewhere. He dreams of those crows in the alders by the lake dripping blood. Gorlim approaches across the lake and hears his ghostly confession. Beren leaps up and heads for home in the pre-dawn light. Maybe he could shortly after look across from a heathery height to see the lake and flames rising above the hideout beyond.

(As Beren will hunt those Orcs shortly, I don't think we need to see what happens to Barahir and his men - just the results that Beren discovers. If what he finds is gruesome enough, I think it will be an effective means of showing how evil the Orcs are! This is after all an adult tale!)

Reasonable start - or not?

- Btw I have an idea or two about how we can approach the issue of Beren befriending wild beasts and becoming vegetarian - a pretty good and gruseome reason, I think! - but first things first: your suggestions so far?

Odo

I'm not sure now if we should go with dreams of Luthien. It's not how it is in the book. I think Tolkien puts her in the story in the place and time she needs to be. Save her up, I say!

[Tinuviel]

I like where this is going...
I do think there should be a prologue about the silmarils and Morgoth and such, and then the gorlim scene. Instead of him telling Beren directly, the events that take place is the dream Beren has. He awakens in the heather to see crows flying toward the camp and smoke above the canopy. He sprints back as fast as he can, possibly a bird or something following him. He reaches the camp and everything is ruined, burned, and bloody He falls to his knees and cries out in dejection, and all of the crows around him fly away.
Transition
We see Beren running through the woods with an enraged look on his face. He finds the orcs in their camp and we see him slowly draw his sword. He hears them talking about yucky things and then he sees his fathers (head, hand?) and strikes in rage. He kills the leader and the few near him. The others stand back in fear, looking upon this terrible man who appeared out of the darkness. I'm thinking now that it could be a silent moment as Odo suggested. Perhaps he spits on the orc corpeses (which might be a little too much edge...) and walks away. Or, the other orcs flee in fear, and there is no need for dialouge. Thus begins the wanderings of Beren.

[Odo Banks]

With slight variations we could stick to your ideas, Tinuviel, and yet stay extremely close to the book.

For instance, we could have the crows in the trees and Gorlim coming to warn Beren, but only know it's a dream when Beren startles awake.

In the book Beren finds the camp a day later (I think?) and l really think he should find the terrible aftermath of brutal violence. Is this too gruesome? Beren finds all the dead with their faces eaten off [man-flesh!] and Beren stumbles anxiously from one body to the next, and only recognizes his father from some kind of brooch, or motif on his clothes? Then he sees his father's hand has been taken by the Orcs. I imagine Beren would be quite upset over all this.

Odo

[Tinuviel]

ok, maybe not ripped off faces but everything else I like! Is there a type of broch for the descendants of Beor? If not, we'll make one!

[Odo Banks]

It was a bit graphic, Tinuviel, maybe I'll use that idea in some other Movie idea. Mind you, maybe we don't need a brooch or similar. If Beren looked around at the twelve faceless dead, his eye might fall upon a handless corpse and recognise immediately that it is Barahir whose hand with the ring is missing. In the book the Orcs take his hand as a token for Sauron - and that's pretty graphic.

Beren loses his hand later too. Lots of hands getting lost...

Odo

[Gandalfs Beard]

Hmmm! Father and Son both lose hands! Maybe George Lucas should direct it after all .

GB

[Odo Banks]

I think "No!" is a good answer.

Odo

[Gandalfs Beard]

Indeed it is .

GB

[Tinuviel]

It seems that Beren dies ALMOST alot. I think in the film, he should be wounded, not on the brink of death, because for me it seemed like he couldn't do anything without Luthien (Which is obviously not true. Yet whether its my teen logic or lack of patience, I do not know )
None the less! If we are to make this a movie, we must add some concreteness to it. Tolkein obviously never intended for this story to be on the big screen, therefore he didn't take the time to make it realistic enough for one to protray with mere actors. We would need the actual characters to tell this story the way tolkein did. It's a diffficult task, and we may need to ( as much as I HATE!!!!!!!!! to say this...) add some reality too it. Only in order to make it into the film. That's what happens though when you take a story and make the words pictures; you loose a little bit of the imagination that goes with them.

Thus, this project will be harder than LOTR.

I'm up for it. U?

[Odo Banks]

Of course we're up to it, Tinuviel. We're true fans! We'll never allow obstacles (or actual logic) stand in our way.

As to your thoughts about having to make Beren and Luthien (The Movie) a little more realistic, I agree with you. I've been playing it over in my mind for several days. Might we not endeavor to show the true story of what happened, but show the audience (through subtle means I haven't thought up yet) what 'actually' happened in a way that might hint at and suggest how history became legend, and legend 'mythology'! And, anyway, if we try to be too fantastic, I think we'll lose the opportunity to show Beren and Luthien as 'real' people who might actually fail. We know they don't fail, but surely we must feel they might - so they must be shown to be 'real' and vulnerable.

As to Luthien as heroine - well Luthien is the daughter of an Elf King and a Maia. She must have Powers - we just have to be thoughtful how we might limit them. As to her saving Beren's bacon a lot - why not?

In stories male heroes have been saving Gals-in-Distress for thousands of years. You know, it can go the other way too. I think it's great T had Luthien consistently saving Beren! But let's just not turn her into a shield-maiden (or a quasi-man) to do it. A woman can have some physical ability as a fighter (and Enchantress, of course!) but she doesn't have to punch out huge Wargs and Werewolves with one punch, or ward off the thrust of huge swords wielded by Mega-Orcs.

(Btw I hate it when light-weight heroines punch out hordes of beefy male villains - it's silly. Actually, I don't like it when that weedy Tom Cruise does it either! And come to think of it - let's have Beren not be too over-the-top with his prowess either...)

Yes, to make an exciting romantic magical realistic but yet subtle movie will be difficult. That's why this movie needs the quality of people who post on this forum to accomplish it! Other forum-type people have tried to make this movie - according to our wise beard, GB -but obviously they failed!

Odo