The Hobbit Movie Forum

[Tinuviel]

I like that! Very Much! I'm still trying to think how to pull of the scene with the ring without dialogue....
Perhaps this...
We here orcs talking about their victory and them gaining the ring, while BEren intensely listens. Then he attacks them with a blind fury, and we see him walking away, barrying his father ect. but at the end we see him looking at the ring (maybe go to a flashback of when he was young with his father?)
then putting it in his pocket (or on his hand) and then your 4 year sequence with AWESOMELY intense music (of course ) But also think that before Beren meets LUthien, we should see some of Luthien and how she lives, or just Thingol and Melian talking about her, just to foreshadow things a bit and to equally weigh the background stories of both characters.
And are there any pictures by John Howard or somone of Huan or any characters from the Silmarillion in this story? I know there's one of Luthien for sure...

[Odo Banks]

Perhaps during his four years of Orc-stalking, Beren can have a few dreams in which he sees Tinuviel? But he doesn't know who she is.

Script Idea.
SAURON (to his Orcs when he sends them out after Barahir)): "After you have killed him, bring me the ring he wears. It is a trinket gifted to him by my friend Finrod - and I would have it for my collection."

As to Huan. What kind of dog are were talking about if we think of "Hounds"?

I don't think Beren needs to kill any Orc but the leader who has Barahir's ring. This throws the others into confusion, and Beren escapes with the ring. Why not leave any major heroics with Beren until later in the storyline - what do you think? Until he meets Luthien, I feel Beren should be a tragic desperate individual.

Your idea about awesome music, I'm not sure. Shouldn't we be patient and wait until we get to scenes like Huan fighting Sauron (as Werewolf) before we begin to unleash the strongest music?

Odo

[Gandalfs Beard]

Alrighty, I've re-read the story and feel I can offer a few comments now .

First, I'm not entirely certain that Beren needs to be entirely speechless until he spies Luthien. The lack of extensive dialogue in the story is due more to Tolkien's storytelling style than any particular character trait. Having said that, there wouldn't be much of a need for dialogue between the time Beren discovers his father's death and later comes across Luthien.

I agree, he should seem brooding and desperate particularly during this period, but with a noble and yet humble soul, in short, much like Viggo's Aragorn. I don't really know how old he's supposed to be, but I like David Thewlis for the part (he plays Remus Lupin in the Potter films), but at 46 he may be too "old". Shame that.

I love the idea of Beren having premonition dreams about Luthien during his Orc killing spree Odo.

Now Huan should be a large dog, big enough for Luthien to ride on. Possibly an Irish or Russian Wolf-hound with special effects to make him look bigger. I'll check my dog books and when I have a firmer idea I'll try to find some pictures to post.

Interestingly, Huan is limited to speak only 3 times in his life. Not certain the best way to handle that yet. I actually liked the way it was done in the Narnia films, but would it work in a film geared more for adults? Perhaps, we are talking about making the film for fans of the story, so they would be prepared for that.

As for the singing battles, that could present a problem. I like the music from many musicals, and have no problem with it when they are stage productions. But it takes me right out of a story when people sing their dialogue, so I'm not a big fan of musicals as realistic drama. But i am thinking that if it is presented as wordless vocal Magic--maybe it could be pulled off.

That is to say, the characters would just vocalize certain tones in an operatic manner, perhaps electronically enhanced and we could see the sound waves rippling through the air and vibrating the surrounding props and set until the resonant frequencies shatter certain objects.

Anyway, just a few thoughts from me to start.

GB

[Odo Banks]

Hello GB, I wondered what you were up to. Good to see you were using your time wisely.

This talk of singing raises an interesting point. I remember that Saruman sings (wordlessly?) in FOTR when he brings the snow down on Gandalf, so what you say about music corresponds with what has already been done to some degree and with some success.

I must look up your hounds on Google. I agree we should up-size whatever we find, but keep whatever we choose "real". I really like the idea of our Movie seeming realistic - almost National Geographic. What an interesting challenge to make all the Magic seem Natural. This fits with a peculiar view I have that Luthien is almost a Gaian figure.

As to Beren's age. I would have thought "quite" young, eighteen at the start? When he meets Luthien he'd be about twenty two - though matured by adversity.

As to Beren not saying anything, it's just I can't imagine him having cause to say anything of real interest until he meets his Love, so why not use the opportunity for an especially Uplifting Moment? He calls her name! Wow! I reckon. Wow! And what if he befriends his animals and initially talks in bird or animal language to begin with - I mean mimic their sounds to converse with them.

On the issue of him befriending animals, I've got some ideas how we could do it, but later... My post is long enough already!

Odo

[Odo Banks]

Irish Wolf Hound - double the size with CGI - perfect!

Odo

[Tinuviel]

I like the idea of the Chanting rather than singing. Arwen does it in FOTR as well. Something like that would seem much more appropriate than singing...
Perhaps... hmmmm. An idea has just struck me. It may not be better, but, here it goes:
There's a narrator. Perhaps Beren himself, speaking in the first person. That way we don't have dialogue, but there isn't akward silence. This way, we can keep the books dialogue and still move the story along. Mainly in the begining. THinking this... what about David Wenham? he played faramir, but he would be a great Beren I think, or narrator (because of 300). Or perhpas Ian McKellen. Someone with that voice that has age and wisdom to it...

[Odo Banks]

If we decided we needed a voice-over of some kind, perhaps Cate Blanchett might be a good choice. Though I'm not convinced, if done properly, there would be any awkward silences. I think Beren's silence might be a way to enhance the drama of his situation. You know, the loneliness, the desperation, the isolation. We also might have the communicative noises he makes with the "beasts" to give some lighter shading, if of course we were to go that way.

David Wenham certainly has the acting ability to do Beren. Now you mention him, I kind of imagine Beren as a Faramir-like character. Aragorn had elvish blood, but Beren was a mere man, even if a heroic one. Mind you, did all men of Numenorean stock have elvish blood? It's something I bet Eldorion would know.

Odo

[Gandalfs Beard]

Indeed it is the Elven blood that defines Numenoreans.

And I have an idea . How about the film starts with pre-credits with a wordless (but with music) sequence showing the Silmarils being fashioned. Then, after the credits we follow a silent Beren as he kills Orcs and befriends birds and beasts (through the changing seasons as Odo mentions). But the silence is punctuated at points by his nightmares and remembrances of his dying father and the events leading up to his father's death. Then the nightmares begin to be interrupted by ethereal and soothing dreams of Tinuviel. Finally one day he comes across Luthien, and his first word (not in a dream or flashback) is "Tinuviel".

I think that sequence incorporates some of all of our ideas thus far and keeps Tolkien's basic construct of the beginning intact. No voice-over necessary. We can find out more info about the Silmarils when Beren reaches the court of Luthien's father. And the information about the mission that led to Barahir's death would be conveyed in the snippet length nightmares and flashbacks.

GB

[Tinuviel]

was a strike of BRILLIANCE! I think that's what needed to be said, that idea. But we also must have Gorlims betrayal in the flashbacks. That wil be difficult considering Gorlim tells him in a dream whats happening. That does happen right? so that would be the only set back...
This I feel is the perfect way to tell the beginning story and all of the back ground story!
WE HAVE A START!

[Gandalfs Beard]

Hmmm!!! Flashbacks within flashbacks and Dreams within dreams have been used to good effect before. Very Postmodern, and Surrealist all at once.

But that aspect could be ambiguous. We would still see Beren talking to an Ethereal Gorlim in a Flashback or Nightmare, which fits with Tolkien's turn of events. The non-reading audience wouldn't necessarily understand that this was a recurring dream, but that could also be remedied by having brief flashes of that dream recurring during Beren's wanderings and Orc Slayings.

And thanks Tinuviel .

GB