“I had to go back to read the timeline on this one. Osgiliath finally fell and her bridge was broken in 2475 TA …”

Sure. The ruined city was retaken by Gondor some time, not very long before LOTR but it was lost again in June 3018, as I said. Then, the last bridge was destroyed.

The films have placed the latter loss immediately before the battle of the Pelennor and moved the retaking of Osgiliath (under Boromor) to the date when it was actually lost. In the books, Boromir goes to Rivendell fresh from losing Osgiliath.

I also cannot agree that the writing in the LOTR films was great. It was good and in the end avoided what have ruined the films. Don’t get me wrong, the films are great (and I have just watched the 1st one again) but they are not spotless. I don’t want to complain about this now but basically everything that one can fault was in the writing.

Unfortunately, I have read the Unfinished Tales only once and can’t remember very much. But take heed that the film makers do not have the rights to that book. But I agree about “knitting together pieces of his disconnected fragments and letters”.

The main addition IMHO is certainly the Dol Guldur story and the White Council (which will give the thematic link to LOTR). And the battle will certainly be expanded, given the action proneness of today’s cinema.

Thank you too. I am looking forward too.

But I concede your point that Osgiliath is not a suitable end for the bridge movie.

I’m re-reading Unfinished Tales right now, and there is simply so much there that could be incorporated. Not really rewriting Tolkien, but knitting together pieces of his disconnected fragments and letters. This is a legitimate role for a good screenwriter, and consistant with the great job that Jackson and Walsh did on LOTR.

In the longer set of Hobbit films, I’d like to see the Dol Gulder story, with the efforts of the White Counsel. Also, the Battle of Five Armies can be drawn out much more than is shown in the book.

A possible ending, to foreshadow what is to come, might be Gollums sneaking out of the Misty Mountains toward Mordor.

Thanks for this dialog, all. I really look forward to these films.

I don’t think Osgiliath would work either as this would move the focus to Gondor, which doesn’t play a large role in Hobbit-related events. Furthermore, the fall of Osgiliath occurs not “years before” but quite as they start of LOTR chronologically (June 3018). It has also been already used in LOTR (if that should concern us).

If the bridge were “about chipping away at the innocence of the world of The Hobbit”, it would be a failure as there is no chipping away of the innoence of the Hobbit world until after Frodo sets out.

And the outside world is already quite dark way before LOTR.

Rewriting Tolkien is not acceptable. But such a bridge film would still provide opportunities as it largely exists only as short notes in an appendix, which can be amply fleshed out.

Coming back to my first point, the problem is the ending point.

As for the breaking point, it will surely be around the Misty Mountains, depending on whether wants to add on a cliff hanger or on a “just got away” note.

I think it certainly could work, and a sensitive writer could use Tolkien’s vast library of fragments to weave together a solid story arc.

Osgiliath fell a few years before LOTR, which might make for a gripping, climactic battle to end the story. You noted four major stories to include, and I agree. This Bridge tale is a story about chipping away at the innocence of the world of The Hobbit, and the fall into darkness of the world of LOTR. There is a lot there to build from. I don’t have a problem with this whole notion, because Tolkien himself often rewrote whole sections with mass revisions, adding and changing, and fixing consistency problems, and weaving his references throughout. A bridge story would be in keeping with his fine tradition.

I think it clear the natural break between the two movies of the Hobbit is when Bilbo bumps his head and the finding of the ring. Last scene: perhaps a light coming across the water of the underground lake… Or Gollum’s screams, after realizing his precious is gone…

But browsing throught the appendices, I think the most appropriate end point (assuming a bridge movie will not be made) would be the year 2954.

After the battle of the five armies, four main lines of event occur:
-Bilbo returns to the Shire with his wealth and the ring
-Gollum goes out looking for “the thief”
-the White Council falls apart
-Sauron returns to Mordor and starts rebuilding Baradur
These could be linked by a visit of Gandalf and Balin (also possible a foreshadowing of his Moria enterprise) and Gandalf’s participation in the last meeting of the White Council
I envision the final sences: Gollum sniffing around, cutting to Saruman telling the Council that the ring is swept into the sea, cutting to Bilbo cherishing “his precious” in the Shire, cutting to Mount Doom errupting.

As for the bridge film, I don’t think it ever will be made because it lacks a sensible end point (comare it with Empire Strikes Back with no film succeeding it).

Otherwise there would be no narrative problem: One could do it as a “life Aragorn” (ten at the events of the hobbit), recounting his travels to the south, his meeting Arwen at Lorien, his hunting Gollum. His friendship with Gandalf could form the link to other developments, including Balin going to Moria. The problem, as I said, is the end – it has no real conclusion until LOTR begins.

I also think that the Silmarillion could be made into films, probably a trilogy – how sucessful it would be is a problem for the studio, not for fans. But I guess it could ride to success on the wave of LOTR if the Hobbit is a sucess.

Problem with the Sil is that there’s really gripping stories and century-long gaps in between.

But the first movie would describe the creation, rise of Morgoth, the travel of the Elves and Morgoth’s imprisonment and escape and culminate in the duel between him and Feanor.

The second would be Beren and Luthien.

The third would wrap things – how the Gondolin and Turin stories fight in there I don’t know.

There’s one more, technical but still important problem with the first of these movies. Depicting events during the ages of the sun is no big deal – but how to depict the age of the trees and especially events occuring under the stars – from the slaying of the trees until the rise of moon and sun – including such important events as the Noldor going into exile.

The lighting would have to do justice to the book, create some sense of difference between the different phases WITHOUT alienating the casual viewer.

Of course, the trilogy would have to be filmed in one piece, otherwise it would probably go the way of the Bakshi film: remain unfinished.

PS. Why should we quit talking about it just because it will probably not be implemented?