The Third Hobbit Movie
Published on: 6th June, 2009
The Third Hobbit Movie | Related News
While New Line Cinema are not saying much about a possible third Hobbit movie they aren’t ruling it out either although Guillermo Del Toro says it will not be him directing the film as he is only committed to his 2 Hobbit movies.
A third Hobbit movie would be the so called ‘bridging movie’ which would fill in the gap between the end of The Hobbit and the start of The Lord of the Rings trilogy.
Assuming The Hobbit movies are the success we expect them to be, the opportunity to bring the old cast from The Lord of the Rings movies together with the new cast of The Hobbit movies will be far too hard to resist for the money men of Hollywood while having more artistic license will probably be too hard for Peter Jackson to resist.
It was originally going to be the second Hobbit movie but Del Toro decided The Hobbit required 2 movies to do the book justice as he also wants to cover The White Council and Dol Guldur within his movies.
Del Toro has told MTV that we as fans should already know where he will break his 2 movies.
“When you read the book, there is only one place to break it really and everybody knows it. It’s been discussed in forums and there’s a lot of people that are right. That’s where it’s going to break. So it’s very simple.”
“What we’re doing is because we have the relationship between Bilbo and Thorin and all the dwarves, there is a logical place for that relationship. There is a moment in the book where something is accomplished that allows us to say, Okay, on to the next one after this.”
Where does Del Toro intend to break the movies and will Peter Jackson return to the directors chair for one last visit to Middle Earth?
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- Reply on "The Dwarves" by Eldorion on March 12, 2010 at 2:39 pm in The Hobbit Movies
- Reply on "The Dwarves" by Gandalfs Beard on March 12, 2010 at 11:29 am in The Hobbit Movies
- Reply on "The Hobbit - Fan Films." by Aule on March 12, 2010 at 10:29 am in The Hobbit Movies
- Reply on "The Dwarves" by Eldorion on March 12, 2010 at 10:23 am in The Hobbit Movies
- Reply on "The Dwarves" by Aule on March 12, 2010 at 9:50 am in The Hobbit Movies
Can’t we have the movies now please. I can’t wait any longer =) I so can’t wait to watch Bilbo and the Dwarves with the big ogres, and the spiders, and Mirkwood, and Beorn. *sigh*
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[...] della nuova saga di Jackson-Del Toro ispirata dal Lo Hobbit (che potrebbe diventare anche una Trilogia), arriva in rete una produzione indipendente di tutto rispetto, The Hunt of Gollum. Guardatevelo [...]
Its all about Beorn storming into the battle of 5 armies, please dont do this bit in flash back. this is my favourite battle in all of middle earths history.
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Splitting the Hobbit is one thing - but damn them if they invent a movie so they can make money - if they want a block buster - that will make them money money money - then put The Silmarillion on the screen. it would take at least 5 movies to do it justice.
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Garanid Reply:
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:56 am
No, not the Silmarillion. It would not be as big a hit, since it only interests Tolkien and Middle-earth fans, no one more. So don’t expect a blockbuster with something that reads more like prospective historical biography, rather than an in depth story like the LOTR trilogy and The Hobbit. A third movie could do well since it contains so much of what casual fans know and love, but a Silmarillion movie will not do nearly as well. Plus, they will butcher it.
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JP Reply:
August 5th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
No, I don’t agree with this comment at all. There is plenty material in the silamarillion to excite the middle-earth and lord of the Rings uninitiated. Plus, with Jackson’s obvious screenwriting talent for tolkiens work, filling in the lack of prose in the book would be well achievable. The stories in the Silmarillion are so grandiose, heart-wrenching and above all thrilling, that if handled correctly, could be turned into movies that could even surpass the trilogy itself. Also, one cannot presume that it would be butchered! If I recall, prior to filming of LOTR many believed that Jackson was a terrible choice as director AND as screenwriter!!! I wonder if Garanid was one of these?!
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m.jakub Reply:
October 6th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
@JP, I agree totally with your comments. The task would absolutely need to be done correctly in order to not bore those who only watch the movies and to satisfy avid fans of the book. I think there is too much to put into a movie, but that can be said about any book. I feel that 3 separate movies could achieve this, one focusing on the creation story, the rise and fall of Feanor and the Noldor, and the impact they leave on the suffering middle-earth that was seemingly left to the devices of Morgoth by the Valar. The story of Beren would be perfect for a single movie. Then the captivating finale, embodiying Turin Turambar, the fall of Doriath and Gondolin, and the capture of Morgoth, perhaps with an interesting prologue highlighting the fall of Numenor. Thus movie goers would have the entire foundation in which to more fully appreciate LOTR.
Beef Reply:
July 5th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Yes, its high time someone took the silmarillion and developed at least one story from the book. Instead of a third Hobbit movie, how about the story of Beren and Luthien. It was Tolkiens favorite, and deserves a chance.
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Will Reply:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:19 am
The Silmarillion would need a movie just for each chapter, seeing as it’s multipule independent stories. LOL
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max w Reply:
July 12th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
To me its’ all about Glamdring which went unnoticed in the LOTR trilogy (for those of you who don’t know, the sword Galdalf used to defeat the Balrog). The hobbit is where he finds it and I really want the hobbit to start with the fall of Gondolin so the sword, along with Sting, is explained.
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I would totally welcome multiple movies from the Silmarillion - the fall of Gondolin would be tremendous.
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I have to agree with you JJ. I would absolutely love more than anything else in this world to see the Silmarillion put on the big screen. The fall of Gondolin, the Siege of Angband, the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, I think that 5 movies wouldnt even be close to enough to cover all the amazingness of the book. As Hollywood is always looking for ideas I am sure the Silmarillion will eventually be made into a movie so I think it is merely a question of when.
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alex lewis Reply:
August 11th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
@Steve-o,
If you go to Peter Colliers website, he has a piece on a completion I did some years ago on the Fall of Gondolin. The possibilities within QS are many - but CJRT holds all the copyright cards there so no joy for now…
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Hollywood looks for big hits. Silmarillion is not a big hit, as I said before, it doesn’t even read like a tale, more like a historical biography. It would only be mostly interesting to Tolkien and Middle-earth fans and scholars who wish to see it. They sure as hell ain’t gonna make a Silmarillion movie. 5 movies as people suggest is way too big to do not to mention it won’t do as well. Hollywood doesn’t go looking for ideas in something that is vastly unknown and not bound to bring much. The question is not when but will it ever be made? For now it looks like a no, no.
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The Pontiff Reply:
August 3rd, 2009 at 3:41 am
The Silmarillion in it’s base form as it was isn’t a hit for the masses. But, let the screenwriters pick up for each of the stories and I would bet that the masses would be just as entertained as the thirsty Tolkien fans of the world.
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Too much detailed information is required to tell the story of The Silmarillion. It’s too complex to interpret on screen.
The Tolkien Estate will never relinquish hold of the film rights to that one. Christopher Tolkien will take them to the grave if he has to I’d say.
It would be better left alone anyway. This book should be left to the imagination otherwise it could be ruined.
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He’s completely right about the obvious place to break the movies. It will no doubtedly be when Bilbo and the dwarves leave Lake town and head for the Lonely mountain. It truly is perfect because they receive a warm reception in Lake town and the men have all been waiting for the return of the king under the mountain. I can see the first movie ending with Bilbo and the dwarves mounting their ponies on the edge of the Long Lake with the Lonely Mountain looming dark and monstrous in the background.
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Well for the breaking point I think Esgaroth is a bit too far along. I think the obvious place is where Gandalf leaves the Dwarves and Bilbo on the eaves of Mirkwood. It’s not only a reasonable halfway point, but it also marks a significant change since Gandalf is no longer leading them, and they must make the rest of the journey to the Mountain on their own, without his guidance, protection, and diplomatic sway. Additionally, it would set up the White Council’s actions against Dol Guldor.
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PZ Reply:
August 7th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
@Andrew, I don’t think Esgaroth is too far along, (though I should re-read the book), but it all depends on how they handle the Necromancer aspect of the story. They could easily fit everything up to Esgaroth into one story, then at the beginning of the 2nd film, backtrack to the Necromancer, and restart the bilbo plotline as he starts the journey to the lonely mountain. Then again, you could be right if they decide instead to stop the bilbo story where Gandalf leaves them and follow Gandalf the rest of the movie, ending the first film with a climactic battle against the necromancer. Then begin the 2nd movie with bilbo and co. travelling on without Gandalf. Who knows? they may even do tribute to LOTR by ending the first film leaving audiences unsure to the fate of Gandalf just like when he fell into the chasm in LOTRFOTR and having him reappear in the 2nd movie (Though, just like in LOTR, those who read the book would know Gandalf was just fine). Now that I write this, I think I like the 2nd option better.
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They don’t have to film all of The Silmarillion, just start some cohesive tales and piece it together if it succeeds.
Start with a film about Tuor then one about Turin and see if it works.
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i think a good idea for a movie would be the children of hurin a long movie about the war of the last alliance ending with isildur getting killed but i think the children of hurin would be the best
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If the Tolkien estate does ever release the film rights to The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales then I’m sure that some talented scriptwriters could flesh out each of the chapters into a great film.
It’s far too negative (and unrealistic) to say that it can’t be done or that no-one will watch them. Furthermore, many people who found The Silmarillion hard going, precisely because of the writing style, will welcome some well-made films with open arms.
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I think the break is a little after Gandolph leaves and they are already in Mirkwood. I just read the novel recently again and I am having trouble figuring out where exactly but I thought the death of Smaug would have been better. Then the next film can be the rise of sauron, battle of 5 armies and the white council.
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The Silmarillion CAN be done. Anyone seen ‘From the Earth to the Moon’?? It doesn’t HAVE to be a big blockbuster or wildly successfull! FromTheEarthToTheMoon was an AWSOME dramatization of stories, anecdotes, struggles and successes which stared MANY well known and not so well known actors: the end result was a cohesive ‘historical biography’ that was entertaining to people with no intrest in space exploration yet was an awsome and much needed addition to any space fan’s library.
The same can be done for The Silmarillion. Well written, well cast and well directed….straight to DVD.
Oh…and it just may kick Band of Brothers tail……..
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Wee Jordie Reply:
September 6th, 2009 at 12:05 am
@Caitman, Too right! The Silmarilion is a massive work which took up much of Tolkiens life: he never finished it and, unfortunately, Christopher Tolkien lacked his father’s imagination and liturary flair so the book reads only slightly more interesting than a radio-shack catalogue. If the story were split into a pilot movie; there is enough material and storylines to start a long running TV series. Maybe when the “Lost” crew run out of steam they could give it a look!
Hmm Silmarilion box sets: I’d better get mine pre-ordered!
On the 2 film - 3 film thing with the Hobbit: does it really matter, as long as Tolkien’s legendary works are teated with the respect they deserve! PJ’s treatment of LOTR may have missed and added to the original but in their final extended versions they remain true to Tolkien and have brought his world to life for new generations. probably didn’t do the book sales any harm either!!!
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Yeah… *drools*
Imagine the opening scene of movie 1:
The city of Gondolin and the forging of Glamdring by the smiths of the Hidden City. Imagine a glorious forge not that petty one seen in Return of the King, used in the reforging of Narsil. One that will have tens of Master smiths and hundreds of helpers running around and crafting all manners of weapons. Swords like Glamdring and Orcrist would be a common sight… *some more drooling*
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Stephen Reply:
August 9th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
And how would this tie in with the rest of The Silmarillion?
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Jasmin Reply:
September 16th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
@Stephen, I think Jason was talking about The Hobbit.
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i really think that the children of hurin is a cohesive part of the lord ofthe rings and hobbit franchise…if you read all the books in order, you’d see it all makes sense! its all part of middle earth so really its just developing this wonderful middle earth. _______________________
i think this is great
long live the elf footed dwarf!!
LOTR RULES
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Holywood movies almost require a huge action sequence at the end for the movie to be made(ex, Helms Deep in The Two Towers). With this in mind i think the split will be after SPOILER!!! Smaug attacks Laketown. Then the second movie can concentrate on The battle of five armies and expand to Dol Guldur and other things.
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I think it should be done only 2 movies. For me the first should end when the people arrive(come) to the lake or when they leave this to the mountain where smaug. After many adventures you can have an ending similar to that of Frodo and Sam in the fellowship of the ring.
In this way the second part begins with the dragon, and finally ends with the battle. It would be very unattractive film that is only the second battle, you must have a bit of introduction, as the battles in The Two Towers and The Return of the King …
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Yo pienso que se deben hacer solo 2 peliculas. Para mi la primera debe finalizar cuando llegan al entran al pueblo del lago o cuando salen de este hacia la montaña donde esta smaug. Despues de muchas aventuras puede tener un final similar al de frodo y sam en la comunidad del anillo.
De esta forma la segunda parte inicia con el dragon, y finalmente termina con la batalla. Seria muy poco atractiva que la segunda pelicula sea solo batalla, debe de tener un poco mas de introduccion, tal como las batallas en Las dos Torres y El retorno del Rey…
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Now you all know how I felt growing up waiting for the Star Wars movies to come out. I saw The Hobbit animation back in 1977, and know this one will be fantastic. Just started reading Tolkien last month, why did I wait so long?
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If we have to wait much longer for any of the films, some of the original cast will already be in the Grey Havens.
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[...] The first movie is scheduled for December 2011, with the second one releasing in December 2012. There is also discussion about a “bridging” movie that would take place after the second film, chronicling the events missing between The Hobbit and [...]
I’m intrigued about the ideas surrounding a scene about Gondolin and the forging of Glamdring, Sting, and Thorin’s sword (I forget the name). But instead of putting it at the beginning of the movie, it could be a flashback as Elrond looks at the swords and comments on their pedigree
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Jasmin Reply:
September 16th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
@DWB, I believe Thorin’s sword was Orcrist, The Goblin-cleaver.
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imo the break has to be in Mirkwood when the dwarves get locked up by the elves and Bilbo is trying to figure out how to break them out.
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The Silmarillion could best be realized as a series. Many movies…(or many quality digital landscape television episodes, if done to highest standards and narrative integrity) A half hour of totally transcendential Creation myth to establish the Gods and the land of the Vala , then a segue to the awakening of Elves in Middle Earth . From there, the Silmarillion tells an epic tale of intertwined fates and intricate plots that dwarfs the Lord of the Rings, King Arthur… all of the classics. It dwarfs the Bible even. But it’s what wasn’t written — the missing tales in between or barely hinted at , that Tolkien never wrote in his short life on Earth— that will give filmmakers many careers of material to cultivate The Silmarillion and the followon litany of Numenor and Sauron’s rise are a cinematic feast beyond measure. If done right…
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IMHO, Part 1 of The Hobbit movie could play out like this: You have your action finale taking place with Bilbo rescuing the Dwarves and battling the spiders of Mirkwood. This would lead into the Dwarves being taken as prisoners by the elves, and getting locked up in the dungeons within Thranduil’s Hall. Final scene could be the gates slamming shut as Bilbo sneaks inside.
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Jay: I like that idea. It plays nice in my head.
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Im waiting for the story of ‘Numenor’ which will give all an insight into what Sauron character was really like. Not being locked away in a tower.
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I think the movies will be split at the point where Bilbo is dropped by one of the dwarves and “bumped his head on hard rock,and remembered nothing more.”
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I would love to see a form of the silmarillion brought to the screen,I think that a TV series could be made if not films.Although it may not be the most popular generally of Tolkien’s books some of the tales are so moving and epic that they could certainly be made a success if handled well.I would love to see the tale of Beren and Luthien and the fall of Gondolin,but im not holding my breath on this.
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If they were to create a Silmarillion movie, I would like it to show how the earth was made, not just Middle-Earth, but all of it’s lands along with the undying lands and how truely evil Morgoth was. He’ll make Sauron look like nothing compared to him if they do him justice.
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And also how old Galadriel is.
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To be fair Morgoth wasn’t actually that evil if you get the gist of the book right =P, but thats irrelevant. They should definitely make the Children of Hurin into a film, but only if the film makers have the balls to make a film with a relatively grief stricken ending. This could easily bring in the character of Morgoth as a physical presence rather than the spiritual sauron in the LotR.
Plus you can’t say no to a big nasty dragon XD
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I, too, believe that many of the stories in The Silmarillion would make great movies–especially Beren and Luthien, wich has Sauron and the ancestors of Aragorn. However, a long as Cristopher Tolkien controls the Tolkien estate, you’ll see no selling of The Silmarillion for any movies. So, quit talking about it.
Steve Garrison
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Morgoth wasn’t that evil? LOL - compared to him Sauron is a philanthropist!
I also think that the Silmarillion could be made into films, probably a trilogy - how sucessful it would be is a problem for the studio, not for fans. But I guess it could ride to success on the wave of LOTR if the Hobbit is a sucess.
Problem with the Sil is that there’s really gripping stories and century-long gaps in between.
But the first movie would describe the creation, rise of Morgoth, the travel of the Elves and Morgoth’s imprisonment and escape and culminate in the duel between him and Feanor.
The second would be Beren and Luthien.
The third would wrap things - how the Gondolin and Turin stories fight in there I don’t know.
There’s one more, technical but still important problem with the first of these movies. Depicting events during the ages of the sun is no big deal - but how to depict the age of the trees and especially events occuring under the stars - from the slaying of the trees until the rise of moon and sun - including such important events as the Noldor going into exile.
The lighting would have to do justice to the book, create some sense of difference between the different phases WITHOUT alienating the casual viewer.
Of course, the trilogy would have to be filmed in one piece, otherwise it would probably go the way of the Bakshi film: remain unfinished.
PS. Why should we quit talking about it just because it will probably not be implemented?
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I don’t know where best to put the break between the two Hobbit movies.
But browsing throught the appendices, I think the most appropriate end point (assuming a bridge movie will not be made) would be the year 2954.
After the battle of the five armies, four main lines of event occur:
-Bilbo returns to the Shire with his wealth and the ring
-Gollum goes out looking for “the thief”
-the White Council falls apart
-Sauron returns to Mordor and starts rebuilding Baradur
These could be linked by a visit of Gandalf and Balin (also possible a foreshadowing of his Moria enterprise) and Gandalf’s participation in the last meeting of the White Council
I envision the final sences: Gollum sniffing around, cutting to Saruman telling the Council that the ring is swept into the sea, cutting to Bilbo cherishing “his precious” in the Shire, cutting to Mount Doom errupting.
As for the bridge film, I don’t think it ever will be made because it lacks a sensible end point (comare it with Empire Strikes Back with no film succeeding it).
Otherwise there would be no narrative problem: One could do it as a “life Aragorn” (ten at the events of the hobbit), recounting his travels to the south, his meeting Arwen at Lorien, his hunting Gollum. His friendship with Gandalf could form the link to other developments, including Balin going to Moria. The problem, as I said, is the end - it has no real conclusion until LOTR begins.
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I have often pondered how to accomplish the task of the Silmarillion. I’ve always known that it would have to be in many parts, due to the way it was written, and because of the multi-millennial time span it covers. Over the last several years I have been convinced that it would have to be a full 15 to 20 episode series. Unfortunately the only way this would be feasable would be to run it on cable or FOX or something like that. It seriously would bomb in theaters, since for the most part it would be mainly geeks like us who would go see it. If they tried to make it appeal to more than people like us - then they would definitely ruin it. And I’m not saying FOX or cable wouldn’t ruin it either. Are there any of us geeks who have enough money to fund it and do it right?
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Responding to STR, from Dec 5, 2009, you mentioned you didn’t know a good end point for the conceptual Bridge Movie (third movie, set after the Hobbit and before LOTR).
I think it certainly could work, and a sensitive writer could use Tolkien’s vast library of fragments to weave together a solid story arc.
Osgiliath fell a few years before LOTR, which might make for a gripping, climactic battle to end the story. You noted four major stories to include, and I agree. This Bridge tale is a story about chipping away at the innocence of the world of The Hobbit, and the fall into darkness of the world of LOTR. There is a lot there to build from. I don’t have a problem with this whole notion, because Tolkien himself often rewrote whole sections with mass revisions, adding and changing, and fixing consistency problems, and weaving his references throughout. A bridge story would be in keeping with his fine tradition.
I think it clear the natural break between the two movies of the Hobbit is when Bilbo bumps his head and the finding of the ring. Last scene: perhaps a light coming across the water of the underground lake… Or Gollum’s screams, after realizing his precious is gone…
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str Reply:
February 1st, 2010 at 11:17 pm
Thomas,
I don’t think Osgiliath would work either as this would move the focus to Gondor, which doesn’t play a large role in Hobbit-related events. Furthermore, the fall of Osgiliath occurs not “years before” but quite as they start of LOTR chronologically (June 3018). It has also been already used in LOTR (if that should concern us).
If the bridge were “about chipping away at the innocence of the world of The Hobbit”, it would be a failure as there is no chipping away of the innoence of the Hobbit world until after Frodo sets out.
And the outside world is already quite dark way before LOTR.
Rewriting Tolkien is not acceptable. But such a bridge film would still provide opportunities as it largely exists only as short notes in an appendix, which can be amply fleshed out.
Coming back to my first point, the problem is the ending point.
As for the breaking point, it will surely be around the Misty Mountains, depending on whether wants to add on a cliff hanger or on a “just got away” note.
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I had to go back to read the timeline on this one. Osgiliath finally fell and her bridge was broken in 2475 TA, about the time Eorl was born and eight years after Golumn found the ring. That city had been in decline for some time, since the Plague. What we saw in the movie was the ruins of the city, where Gondor had still held it defensively, but it had been in ruins for 500 years.
But I concede your point that Osgiliath is not a suitable end for the bridge movie.
I’m re-reading Unfinished Tales right now, and there is simply so much there that could be incorporated. Not really rewriting Tolkien, but knitting together pieces of his disconnected fragments and letters. This is a legitimate role for a good screenwriter, and consistant with the great job that Jackson and Walsh did on LOTR.
In the longer set of Hobbit films, I’d like to see the Dol Gulder story, with the efforts of the White Counsel. Also, the Battle of Five Armies can be drawn out much more than is shown in the book.
A possible ending, to foreshadow what is to come, might be Gollums sneaking out of the Misty Mountains toward Mordor.
Thanks for this dialog, all. I really look forward to these films.
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str Reply:
February 7th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
Thomas,
“I had to go back to read the timeline on this one. Osgiliath finally fell and her bridge was broken in 2475 TA …”
Sure. The ruined city was retaken by Gondor some time, not very long before LOTR but it was lost again in June 3018, as I said. Then, the last bridge was destroyed.
The films have placed the latter loss immediately before the battle of the Pelennor and moved the retaking of Osgiliath (under Boromor) to the date when it was actually lost. In the books, Boromir goes to Rivendell fresh from losing Osgiliath.
I also cannot agree that the writing in the LOTR films was great. It was good and in the end avoided what have ruined the films. Don’t get me wrong, the films are great (and I have just watched the 1st one again) but they are not spotless. I don’t want to complain about this now but basically everything that one can fault was in the writing.
Unfortunately, I have read the Unfinished Tales only once and can’t remember very much. But take heed that the film makers do not have the rights to that book. But I agree about “knitting together pieces of his disconnected fragments and letters”.
The main addition IMHO is certainly the Dol Guldur story and the White Council (which will give the thematic link to LOTR). And the battle will certainly be expanded, given the action proneness of today’s cinema.
Thank you too. I am looking forward too.
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